4 ms·

I imagine the case would be different for different interests, but "a few hundred to a few thousand people die of covid every day" would be my go to if I were t

I imagine the case would be different for different interests, but "a few hundred to a few thousand people die of covid every day" would be my go to if I were the one making it.

throwawaylinux 5y ago
Compared with what? What exact measures would you propose, what benefit will they have and to whom, and what will they cost? Is coercing people into getting vaccinated by preventing them from travel, jobs, etc. going to save thousands of the willingly vaccinated who otherwise would have died? Where are the numbers? Do you understand the gravity of coercing people to get unwanted medical treatments, or at least if you don't think it's a big deal at least accept that many people actually do extremely strongly believe notions like the government staying out of their bodies and medical issues? And then can you logically make all these arguments and numbers in a way that they can not with similar arguments be applied to automobiles and related deaths, obesity and related issues and medical system load, etc etc? None of this has been thoroughly examined, litigated, justified and sold to the public on its merits as far as I can see. Still. It still has not been. There has been propaganda relentlessly pushed out there in the form of fear and urgency and appeals to authority rather than facts or evidence. There has been no room to question things or present different opinions -- people who dared to do have been attacked, bullied, fired, deplatformed, and censored.
- Gabriel_Martin 5y ago
  > Compared with what? I really don't get what is the glitch here? You seem fixated on finding logical parallels to an ongoing response to a global pandemic, which is honestly getting quite repetitive to discuss. It's compared with the current level of deaths to vaccination rate given it's not going away.. The logical conclusion of unsurprising policies as a response to the novel coronavirus, or any highly transmissible zoonotic virus. Are we even on the same page here that less deaths is better from the perspective of public policy? Honestly your rhetoric, message after message gets so tiresome to engage with, by virtue of hyperbolic it is. "Relentless propaganda", "daring to have different opinions gets you attacked bullied fired etc etc". It's a national healthcare apparatus' response to a virus, nothing more or less. After reading it all, repeating it every which way, it's just not compelling to me. This doesn't need to be some hyper-emotional, hyper-politicized topic, where parents of young boys need to fearfully victimize themselves as patriot-martyr enemies of the fascist state. I'm getting to the point of having a kind of second-hand embarrassment at the characterization.
  - throwawaylinux 5y ago
    > I really don't get what is the glitch here? The glitch? The glitch is getting you to complete your ideas and form a coherent response. > You seem fixated on finding logical parallels to an ongoing response to a global pandemic, which is honestly getting quite repetitive to discuss. I'm fixated because I posted some questions in a covid thread that doesn't mindlessly toe the line, and that's exhausting you? I rather think you would be less upset in the end if you just conceded you don't have good answers. Sometimes it's okay to admit you don't know everything. This flustered incoherent rambling is what's embarrassing and exposes you as incapable of addressing what I wrote just as surely as a simple admission would have. With the additional benefit of the latter being retaining some dignity. The entire thread is here plain as day for anybody to read, and the point is still floating around happily well above your head: > Are we even on the same page here that less deaths is better from the perspective of public policy? So what to do about the overweight person question. I know you're getting flustered and angry because you can't answer it, so you're just pretending it's not relevant or it's somehow "absurd", without actually being able to articulate why. Why not just stop participating in the conversation if it's upsetting you so much? You're clearly not getting any benefit from considering different perspectives.
    - GabrielMtn 5y ago
      I honestly find it quite humorous at how quickly your accusations of other’s nastiness and bullying, and apologies for hyperbolic rhetoric turns into doubling-down, and worse, deflection from your specious logic with the idea that instead of being an illogical comparison that it surely must just be high above anyone’s head who doesn’t see any congruent logic to it, and that they must just be upset and flustered. That definitely tracks with a person who can’t distinguish the differences between banning the obese from society, and vaccine mandates. Maybe your concern and über-patriotism is lost on my flustered, upset little mind, or maybe it’s just a specious red-herring of a point since you’ve already decided that vaccine mandates are fascistic overreach of government power? I don’t think we can both be right.
      - throwawaylinux 5y ago

I imagine the case would be different for different interests, but "a few hundred to a few thousand people die of covid every day" would be my go to if I were the one making it.

throwawaylinux 5y ago

Compared with what? What exact measures would you propose, what benefit will they have and to whom, and what will they cost? Is coercing people into getting vaccinated by preventing them from travel, jobs, etc. going to save thousands of the willingly vaccinated who otherwise would have died? Where are the numbers? Do you understand the gravity of coercing people to get unwanted medical treatments, or at least if you don't think it's a big deal at least accept that many people actually do extremely strongly believe notions like the government staying out of their bodies and medical issues? And then can you logically make all these arguments and numbers in a way that they can not with similar arguments be applied to automobiles and related deaths, obesity and related issues and medical system load, etc etc? None of this has been thoroughly examined, litigated, justified and sold to the public on its merits as far as I can see. Still. It still has not been. There has been propaganda relentlessly pushed out there in the form of fear and urgency and appeals to authority rather than facts or evidence. There has been no room to question things or present different opinions -- people who dared to do have been attacked, bullied, fired, deplatformed, and censored.

Gabriel_Martin 5y ago
> Compared with what? I really don't get what is the glitch here? You seem fixated on finding logical parallels to an ongoing response to a global pandemic, which is honestly getting quite repetitive to discuss. It's compared with the current level of deaths to vaccination rate given it's not going away.. The logical conclusion of unsurprising policies as a response to the novel coronavirus, or any highly transmissible zoonotic virus. Are we even on the same page here that less deaths is better from the perspective of public policy? Honestly your rhetoric, message after message gets so tiresome to engage with, by virtue of hyperbolic it is. "Relentless propaganda", "daring to have different opinions gets you attacked bullied fired etc etc". It's a national healthcare apparatus' response to a virus, nothing more or less. After reading it all, repeating it every which way, it's just not compelling to me. This doesn't need to be some hyper-emotional, hyper-politicized topic, where parents of young boys need to fearfully victimize themselves as patriot-martyr enemies of the fascist state. I'm getting to the point of having a kind of second-hand embarrassment at the characterization.
- throwawaylinux 5y ago
  > I really don't get what is the glitch here? The glitch? The glitch is getting you to complete your ideas and form a coherent response. > You seem fixated on finding logical parallels to an ongoing response to a global pandemic, which is honestly getting quite repetitive to discuss. I'm fixated because I posted some questions in a covid thread that doesn't mindlessly toe the line, and that's exhausting you? I rather think you would be less upset in the end if you just conceded you don't have good answers. Sometimes it's okay to admit you don't know everything. This flustered incoherent rambling is what's embarrassing and exposes you as incapable of addressing what I wrote just as surely as a simple admission would have. With the additional benefit of the latter being retaining some dignity. The entire thread is here plain as day for anybody to read, and the point is still floating around happily well above your head: > Are we even on the same page here that less deaths is better from the perspective of public policy? So what to do about the overweight person question. I know you're getting flustered and angry because you can't answer it, so you're just pretending it's not relevant or it's somehow "absurd", without actually being able to articulate why. Why not just stop participating in the conversation if it's upsetting you so much? You're clearly not getting any benefit from considering different perspectives.
  - GabrielMtn 5y ago
    I honestly find it quite humorous at how quickly your accusations of other’s nastiness and bullying, and apologies for hyperbolic rhetoric turns into doubling-down, and worse, deflection from your specious logic with the idea that instead of being an illogical comparison that it surely must just be high above anyone’s head who doesn’t see any congruent logic to it, and that they must just be upset and flustered. That definitely tracks with a person who can’t distinguish the differences between banning the obese from society, and vaccine mandates. Maybe your concern and über-patriotism is lost on my flustered, upset little mind, or maybe it’s just a specious red-herring of a point since you’ve already decided that vaccine mandates are fascistic overreach of government power? I don’t think we can both be right.
    - throwawaylinux 5y ago