7 ms·

Crypto Cities

76 points by robbiet480 5y ago

simonebrunozzi 5y ago
Worth mentioning is Fabrica, a platform to enable super quick and inexpensive real estate transactions using the blockchain [0]. Disclaimer: I have shares in the company and I was a co-founder long time ago. [0]: https://www.fabrica.land/ https://www.fabrica.land/
- simonebrunozzi 5y ago
  I cited something extremely relevant (a platform that uses blockchain to digitize real estate), and correctly disclaim that I am involved, and you downvoted me. I would have appreciated a comment and/or a reason for the downvote.
  - snapcaster 5y ago
    If you're actually in good faith confused on the downvotes I think it's because people are so sick of hearing and reading people shilling their pet "blockchain for X" company/idea/coin
    - bpiche 5y ago
      Or maybe they're just eating each other
    - simonebrunozzi 5y ago
      Maybe you're right. But: 1) I was involved, I am no longer involved, despite, as mentioned, I still have a vested interest in the company. 2) We had an opportunity to do an ICO in 2017/2018, and we didn't, because we've been sick of the crypto bullshit long before most others have been, and because we wanted to build a serious business, not a scam. 3) It's actually a clever way to use the Blockchain for something useful (transactions as public proof, and tokens as unique identifiers that hold property of a trust, all perfectly compatible with the existing legal structure). I think it's unfair to quickly downvote someone just because of a general sentiment. I was trying to contribute to the conversation, and I also had a disclaimer of my involvement with the company I was citing. Anyway. I'll just keep disagreeing with the few that decided to downvote me.
bob229 5y ago
More idiocy from the crank in chief
anm89 5y ago
I don't really understand what the incentive for the cities to adopt these tokens is except to appear "tech savvy" Not saying the reasons don't exist but I just don't get it.
- ur-whale 5y ago
  Maybe this? : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_currency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_currency "aims to encourage spending within a local community"
  - anm89 5y ago
    I guess what I'm getting at is through what mechanism. I can already buy every single thing available in my local community with American currency. Why do the tokens improve this situation?
    - lucasverra 5y ago
      Local currencies are a thing since the middle age. They allow for a distinct set of rules (=! Inflation rate) governed by “local” representatives. In strong economies (like g7), it does not make much sense, granted. You may lose on the exchange processes vs “the global currency”, but your community may not care since aiming to trade locally. PS : in constant inflationary economies (read Argentina, i think 600% in 10y), crypto is mainstream now for regular Joe's. Stable coins are all the rage to fight inflation.
      - joosters 5y ago
        Stable coins are all the rage to fight inflation. 'Regular Joes' call them dollars, they exist as pieces of paper you can hold in your hand. They don't need to play silly games with crypto scammers.
        nimchimpsky 5y ago
        dollars don't fight inflation. I think the previous comment is confused with terminology
_xnmw 5y ago
I think I finally "get" crypto. This article made me see the light. Crypto is about secession - a techno-anarchy. Decentralized governance with a self-managed currency is effectively creating a new city-state. To be honest, the idea of the United States collapsing into a collection of Crypto City-States doesn't sound too bad. Better than a Mad Max scenario.
- pharmakom 5y ago
  If you want to really understand the true crypto believers (the earlier crowd, not the speculators) you must read Atlas Shrugged. In it, the heroes form their own society away from an (in their eyes) overreaching government, built on free exchange. In it they have a special bank vault that can never be looted, keeping their wealth safe, even in the event of the community being invaded. If it is forced open, the contents are destroyed. This is what Bitcoin (and crypto) can be to these people.
  - pharmakom 5y ago
    Further background is The Sovereign Individual, which has some ugly white supremisist overtones, but also discusses crypto and a return to city states.
    - ericmay 5y ago
      Could you quote or explain some of the things that you found to be overtones of white supremacy?
  - dragonelite 5y ago
    Sounds like a dystopian shithole, capitalism has never really worked without state intervention, bailing out the capitalist/bankers asses or suppressing worker protests. Capitalism without minimal government control is nothing more then neo feudalism. Maybe that is what they want, the early crypto adopters have the biggest bags of all sorts of coins it protects them from the harsh living conditions such a neo feudal society will produce.
sect2k 5y ago
This is Idiocracy in the making. If you actually think this guy is in any way of form smart, I pitty you.
littlestymaar 5y ago
I find it amazing that 5 years after a catastrophic failure that could have killed Ethereum[1], Vitalik is pitching DAOs once again… But well, subprimes and CDS still exist, and the EU re-allowed using Meat and bone meal to feed castle 20 years after the mad cow disease, so I guess it's just that humans are just very bad at learning from our mistakes. [1] https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/the-dao-hack-makerdao#section-the-dao-hack-remedy-forks-ethereum https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/the-dao-hack-makerdao#sec...
- chrisco255 5y ago
  Yes because the entire Ethereum community moved on and continued innovating and improving and there are now dozens of open source governance structures for DAOs in place that have been battle tested and are running multi-billion dollar treasuries now: https://gnosis-safe.io/ https://gnosis-safe.io/ https://www.metacartel.org/ https://www.metacartel.org/ https://compound.finance/governance https://compound.finance/governance https://daohaus.club/ https://daohaus.club/ https://snapshot.org/#/gitcoindao.eth https://snapshot.org/#/gitcoindao.eth We are very good at learning from our mistakes.
  - Bombthecat 5y ago
    Because mistakes are very expensive!
  - littlestymaar 5y ago
    The only thing that's battle tested is resistance of the hype to catastrophic failures. In 2021, losing tens of millions in crypto assets because of a bug or a hack is considered normal an bothers no-one: in the last 3 months only, a billion dollar was lost or stolen (Poly network, Compound, Cream finance and smaller others), but “this is fine”.
captn3m0 5y ago
This (along with other posts from Vitalik) keep ignoring any solutions that don’t require blockchain. As an example, he writes: > Certificates, for example cryptographic proofs that some particular individual is a resident of the city, could be done on-chain for added verifiability and security (eg. if such certificates are issued on-chain, it would become obvious if a large number of false certificates are issued). This can be used by all kinds of local-government-issued certificates. He does point out latter how does could probably not be decentralised 100% due to legal requirements. We already have a working solution for this problem in the PKI World - Cert Transparency. It works, is somewhat decentralised and has worked really well. Doesn’t need a blockchain.
- oleganza 5y ago
  Since "blockchain" is already a very stretched term, I think Cert Transparency log can be classified as a blockchain.
  - captn3m0 5y ago
    I can’t find it now, I remember the CT announcement posts explicitly calling it out as “not a blockchain”. The CloudFlare announcement also makes fun of it: > Certificate Transparency brings accountability to the web PKI using a technology called a <del>blockchain an append-only public ledger, </del> an ordered list. Crypto is really good at co-opting existing terms (crypto, Web3 for eg) and we shouldn’t let it go the other way as well, calling an ordered list a blockchain. https://blog.cloudflare.com/introducing-certificate-transparency-and-nimbus/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/introducing-certificate-transpar...
    - oleganza 5y ago
      "Blockchain" became a term when people started riding on Bitcoin hype to push their own scamcoins. So, on one hand there was "there's not just Bitcoin, there's an entire Blockchain Space" theme, but on another — everyone saw "blockchain" as a giant ponzi operation. Also, there are people who are fixated on proof-of-work as something evil, so that's also why CT was saying "this is not a blockchain".
Blackstone4 5y ago
all very cool because of the use of the word crypto which has great marketing but really what we are talking about is a mix of decentralized databases and decentralized currencies. Doesnt sound quite as cool if put like that...
GDC7 5y ago
His platform can even run Crypto Kitties without congesting. Now they want to run crypto cities...gotta walk before you can run. How about fixing crypto kitties first? People have to pay such high fees that they are considering if it's even worth to have their kitties fuck with other kitties.
cl42 5y ago
If anyone wants to work on DAOs and crypto solutions like this, I’m based in Vancouver, former YC founder, and totally down to explore this as a next startup idea. Reply below and I can share my email. :)

76 points by robbiet480 5y ago

Worth mentioning is Fabrica, a platform to enable super quick and inexpensive real estate transactions using the blockchain [0]. Disclaimer: I have shares in the company and I was a co-founder long time ago. [0]: https://www.fabrica.land/ https://www.fabrica.land/

simonebrunozzi 5y ago
I cited something extremely relevant (a platform that uses blockchain to digitize real estate), and correctly disclaim that I am involved, and you downvoted me. I would have appreciated a comment and/or a reason for the downvote.
- snapcaster 5y ago
  If you're actually in good faith confused on the downvotes I think it's because people are so sick of hearing and reading people shilling their pet "blockchain for X" company/idea/coin
  - bpiche 5y ago
    Or maybe they're just eating each other
  - simonebrunozzi 5y ago
    Maybe you're right. But: 1) I was involved, I am no longer involved, despite, as mentioned, I still have a vested interest in the company. 2) We had an opportunity to do an ICO in 2017/2018, and we didn't, because we've been sick of the crypto bullshit long before most others have been, and because we wanted to build a serious business, not a scam. 3) It's actually a clever way to use the Blockchain for something useful (transactions as public proof, and tokens as unique identifiers that hold property of a trust, all perfectly compatible with the existing legal structure). I think it's unfair to quickly downvote someone just because of a general sentiment. I was trying to contribute to the conversation, and I also had a disclaimer of my involvement with the company I was citing. Anyway. I'll just keep disagreeing with the few that decided to downvote me.

bob229 5y ago

More idiocy from the crank in chief

anm89 5y ago

I don't really understand what the incentive for the cities to adopt these tokens is except to appear "tech savvy" Not saying the reasons don't exist but I just don't get it.

ur-whale 5y ago
Maybe this? : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_currency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_currency "aims to encourage spending within a local community"
- anm89 5y ago
  I guess what I'm getting at is through what mechanism. I can already buy every single thing available in my local community with American currency. Why do the tokens improve this situation?
  - lucasverra 5y ago
    Local currencies are a thing since the middle age. They allow for a distinct set of rules (=! Inflation rate) governed by “local” representatives. In strong economies (like g7), it does not make much sense, granted. You may lose on the exchange processes vs “the global currency”, but your community may not care since aiming to trade locally. PS : in constant inflationary economies (read Argentina, i think 600% in 10y), crypto is mainstream now for regular Joe's. Stable coins are all the rage to fight inflation.
    - joosters 5y ago
      Stable coins are all the rage to fight inflation. 'Regular Joes' call them dollars, they exist as pieces of paper you can hold in your hand. They don't need to play silly games with crypto scammers.
      - nimchimpsky 5y ago
        dollars don't fight inflation. I think the previous comment is confused with terminology

_xnmw 5y ago

I think I finally "get" crypto. This article made me see the light. Crypto is about secession - a techno-anarchy. Decentralized governance with a self-managed currency is effectively creating a new city-state. To be honest, the idea of the United States collapsing into a collection of Crypto City-States doesn't sound too bad. Better than a Mad Max scenario.

pharmakom 5y ago
If you want to really understand the true crypto believers (the earlier crowd, not the speculators) you must read Atlas Shrugged. In it, the heroes form their own society away from an (in their eyes) overreaching government, built on free exchange. In it they have a special bank vault that can never be looted, keeping their wealth safe, even in the event of the community being invaded. If it is forced open, the contents are destroyed. This is what Bitcoin (and crypto) can be to these people.
- pharmakom 5y ago
  Further background is The Sovereign Individual, which has some ugly white supremisist overtones, but also discusses crypto and a return to city states.
  - ericmay 5y ago
    Could you quote or explain some of the things that you found to be overtones of white supremacy?
- dragonelite 5y ago
  Sounds like a dystopian shithole, capitalism has never really worked without state intervention, bailing out the capitalist/bankers asses or suppressing worker protests. Capitalism without minimal government control is nothing more then neo feudalism. Maybe that is what they want, the early crypto adopters have the biggest bags of all sorts of coins it protects them from the harsh living conditions such a neo feudal society will produce.

sect2k 5y ago

This is Idiocracy in the making. If you actually think this guy is in any way of form smart, I pitty you.

littlestymaar 5y ago

I find it amazing that 5 years after a catastrophic failure that could have killed Ethereum[1], Vitalik is pitching DAOs once again… But well, subprimes and CDS still exist, and the EU re-allowed using Meat and bone meal to feed castle 20 years after the mad cow disease, so I guess it's just that humans are just very bad at learning from our mistakes. [1] https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/the-dao-hack-makerdao#section-the-dao-hack-remedy-forks-ethereum https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/the-dao-hack-makerdao#sec...

chrisco255 5y ago
Yes because the entire Ethereum community moved on and continued innovating and improving and there are now dozens of open source governance structures for DAOs in place that have been battle tested and are running multi-billion dollar treasuries now: https://gnosis-safe.io/ https://gnosis-safe.io/ https://www.metacartel.org/ https://www.metacartel.org/ https://compound.finance/governance https://compound.finance/governance https://daohaus.club/ https://daohaus.club/ https://snapshot.org/#/gitcoindao.eth https://snapshot.org/#/gitcoindao.eth We are very good at learning from our mistakes.
- Bombthecat 5y ago
  Because mistakes are very expensive!
- littlestymaar 5y ago
  The only thing that's battle tested is resistance of the hype to catastrophic failures. In 2021, losing tens of millions in crypto assets because of a bug or a hack is considered normal an bothers no-one: in the last 3 months only, a billion dollar was lost or stolen (Poly network, Compound, Cream finance and smaller others), but “this is fine”.

captn3m0 5y ago

This (along with other posts from Vitalik) keep ignoring any solutions that don’t require blockchain. As an example, he writes: > Certificates, for example cryptographic proofs that some particular individual is a resident of the city, could be done on-chain for added verifiability and security (eg. if such certificates are issued on-chain, it would become obvious if a large number of false certificates are issued). This can be used by all kinds of local-government-issued certificates. He does point out latter how does could probably not be decentralised 100% due to legal requirements. We already have a working solution for this problem in the PKI World - Cert Transparency. It works, is somewhat decentralised and has worked really well. Doesn’t need a blockchain.

oleganza 5y ago
Since "blockchain" is already a very stretched term, I think Cert Transparency log can be classified as a blockchain.
- captn3m0 5y ago
  I can’t find it now, I remember the CT announcement posts explicitly calling it out as “not a blockchain”. The CloudFlare announcement also makes fun of it: > Certificate Transparency brings accountability to the web PKI using a technology called a <del>blockchain an append-only public ledger, </del> an ordered list. Crypto is really good at co-opting existing terms (crypto, Web3 for eg) and we shouldn’t let it go the other way as well, calling an ordered list a blockchain. https://blog.cloudflare.com/introducing-certificate-transparency-and-nimbus/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/introducing-certificate-transpar...
  - oleganza 5y ago
    "Blockchain" became a term when people started riding on Bitcoin hype to push their own scamcoins. So, on one hand there was "there's not just Bitcoin, there's an entire Blockchain Space" theme, but on another — everyone saw "blockchain" as a giant ponzi operation. Also, there are people who are fixated on proof-of-work as something evil, so that's also why CT was saying "this is not a blockchain".

Blackstone4 5y ago

all very cool because of the use of the word crypto which has great marketing but really what we are talking about is a mix of decentralized databases and decentralized currencies. Doesnt sound quite as cool if put like that...

GDC7 5y ago

His platform can even run Crypto Kitties without congesting. Now they want to run crypto cities...gotta walk before you can run. How about fixing crypto kitties first? People have to pay such high fees that they are considering if it's even worth to have their kitties fuck with other kitties.

cl42 5y ago

If anyone wants to work on DAOs and crypto solutions like this, I’m based in Vancouver, former YC founder, and totally down to explore this as a next startup idea. Reply below and I can share my email. :)