3 ms·

It makes perfect sense. That is not required for my argument to make sense, 30% of healthcare costs is staggering, and absolutely could result in higher costs o

It makes perfect sense. That is not required for my argument to make sense, 30% of healthcare costs is staggering, and absolutely could result in higher costs or worse outcomes for others. And a spike from one particular cause does not necessarily lead to a shortage. If a few extra patients start getting covid and then there is a bed shortage, then fewer overweight people in there might also have prevented the shortage. Look, it's for the greater good. No use arguing against it unless you hate grandma and Science™.

greesil 5y ago
"And a spike from one particular cause does not necessarily lead to a shortage" have you read the news, like ever in the past year? Yes fatties are expensive. They increase costs. But it doesn't matter because we are talking about an infectious disease that can have exponential growth. The underlying dynamics are fundamentally different, and if you can't grasp that there's no point in arguing on the internet with you.
- throwawaylinux 5y ago
  No, because vaccinated people have protection from a safe and effective vaccine, vaccinated people can spread the disease as well, and also if they are still worried they can choose to isolate themselves at home if they wish. Extremely high vaccination rates have repeatedly shown not to eliminate outbreaks. So the argument has shifted to the load on the healthcare system. Unvaccinated people are a risk they claim because they might create hospital shortages and therefore be allegedly responsible for the death of others. Same as overweight people.
  - zuminator 5y ago
    Overweight people per se don't create hospital shortages. You can argue that obesity is a huge expense overall but it's a predictable and manageable one. It doesn't generally cause sudden spikes in medical utilization in the way a pandemic or epidemic can.
    - throwawaylinux 5y ago
      Unvaccinated people per se don't create hospital shortages either. > You can argue that obesity is a huge expense overall but it's a predictable and manageable one. I can argue that it is a huge expense that costs society and impacts service to others, and may absolutely contribute to shortages, and therefore is a fine analogy to use when exploring the merits of the covid response.
      - timeon 5y ago
        > Unvaccinated people per se don't create hospital shortages either. Except they do.
        throwawaylinux 5y ago
        No they don't. Hospitalizations do. Which are people who contract covid. Which includes vaccinated and unvaccinated people. And hospitalization rates are higher in people with other issues like obesity.
- throwawaylinux 5y ago
  Also, > fatties Come on. What is this, primary school?
  - craftinator 5y ago
    > If a few extra patients start getting covid and then there is a bed shortage, then fewer overweight people in there might also have prevented the shortage. Come on, what is this, pre-calc? Guess we haven't covered growth curves yet, I'd suggest repeating some high school level math.
    - throwawaylinux 5y ago
      Interesting you jumped in here to defend the previous poster's fat people bullying. Seems to fit certain patterns of behavior. > Come on, what is this, pre-calc? Guess we haven't covered growth curves yet, I'd suggest repeating some high school level math. Okay let's see all your working that justifies your position. You can't just spout "but growth curve" and act like you won the argument. What's the growth curve for vaccinated people? What's the growth curve for vaccinated overweight people who catch covid and their increased complications put demand spikes on hospital systems, and explain why that won't cause shortages. I'll wait.
      - craftinator 5y ago
        > You can't just spout "but growth curve" and act like you won the argument. I sure can! I literally just did. It's a poor tactic to refute something that's already happened... Also, as for growth curves, and transmissible disease has one, because it's, ya know, transmissible. The transmissions curve for obesity is... Not a curve. It's just a line.
        throwawaylinux 5y ago
        Ah so you are unable to provide your data or working. That's what I thought.

greesil 5y ago

"And a spike from one particular cause does not necessarily lead to a shortage" have you read the news, like ever in the past year? Yes fatties are expensive. They increase costs. But it doesn't matter because we are talking about an infectious disease that can have exponential growth. The underlying dynamics are fundamentally different, and if you can't grasp that there's no point in arguing on the internet with you.

throwawaylinux 5y ago
No, because vaccinated people have protection from a safe and effective vaccine, vaccinated people can spread the disease as well, and also if they are still worried they can choose to isolate themselves at home if they wish. Extremely high vaccination rates have repeatedly shown not to eliminate outbreaks. So the argument has shifted to the load on the healthcare system. Unvaccinated people are a risk they claim because they might create hospital shortages and therefore be allegedly responsible for the death of others. Same as overweight people.
- zuminator 5y ago
  Overweight people per se don't create hospital shortages. You can argue that obesity is a huge expense overall but it's a predictable and manageable one. It doesn't generally cause sudden spikes in medical utilization in the way a pandemic or epidemic can.
  - throwawaylinux 5y ago
    Unvaccinated people per se don't create hospital shortages either. > You can argue that obesity is a huge expense overall but it's a predictable and manageable one. I can argue that it is a huge expense that costs society and impacts service to others, and may absolutely contribute to shortages, and therefore is a fine analogy to use when exploring the merits of the covid response.
    - timeon 5y ago
      > Unvaccinated people per se don't create hospital shortages either. Except they do.
      - throwawaylinux 5y ago
        No they don't. Hospitalizations do. Which are people who contract covid. Which includes vaccinated and unvaccinated people. And hospitalization rates are higher in people with other issues like obesity.
throwawaylinux 5y ago
Also, > fatties Come on. What is this, primary school?
- craftinator 5y ago
  > If a few extra patients start getting covid and then there is a bed shortage, then fewer overweight people in there might also have prevented the shortage. Come on, what is this, pre-calc? Guess we haven't covered growth curves yet, I'd suggest repeating some high school level math.
  - throwawaylinux 5y ago
    Interesting you jumped in here to defend the previous poster's fat people bullying. Seems to fit certain patterns of behavior. > Come on, what is this, pre-calc? Guess we haven't covered growth curves yet, I'd suggest repeating some high school level math. Okay let's see all your working that justifies your position. You can't just spout "but growth curve" and act like you won the argument. What's the growth curve for vaccinated people? What's the growth curve for vaccinated overweight people who catch covid and their increased complications put demand spikes on hospital systems, and explain why that won't cause shortages. I'll wait.
    - craftinator 5y ago
      > You can't just spout "but growth curve" and act like you won the argument. I sure can! I literally just did. It's a poor tactic to refute something that's already happened... Also, as for growth curves, and transmissible disease has one, because it's, ya know, transmissible. The transmissions curve for obesity is... Not a curve. It's just a line.
      - throwawaylinux 5y ago
        Ah so you are unable to provide your data or working. That's what I thought.