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I'm confused because as far as I can tell the Patriot Act is not currently in force, having expired in 2020[0]. But it seems that everyone is proceeding as if i

I'm confused because as far as I can tell the Patriot Act is not currently in force, having expired in 2020[0]. But it seems that everyone is proceeding as if it is still in force, as if waiting on Congress to actually renew it is just a formality? Is this really how things work? [0] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/12/section-215-expired-year-review-2020 https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/12/section-215-expired-ye...

dragonwriter 5y ago
>I'm confused because as far as I can tell the Patriot Act is not currently in force, having expired in 2020 Nope, most of it remains in force, only a small (but important) minority of it is covered by sunset provisions. [0] [0] https://www.aclu.org/other/patriot-act-sunsets https://www.aclu.org/other/patriot-act-sunsets
southerntofu 5y ago
If you believe in rule of law, you're gonna have a bad time! At least in France and USA (the examples i know best), written law has mostly never been applied: - NSA gathered tons of info before 9/11 and before dragnet surveillance was legal - CIA imported tons of cocaine to feed popular neighborhoods with crack (destroy solidarity) and finance their counter-revolutionary wars which Congress knew nothing about (like financing and arming the fascist Contras in Nicaragua) - let's not even talk about FBI's CoIntelPro program of surveillance, manipulation, and assassination of militants (see also: Cointelpro 101 documentary) - likewise in France, la Sûreté de l'État (CIA equivalent in the 19th century) persecuted anarchists long before the "lois scélérates" (scoundrel laws) outlawed anarchist propaganda - french police at the border deports people before they can apply for asylum, which is illegal in french law and according to international convention; just like french police deports romanian citizens back to Romania while it's illegal under Schengen accords - french criminal police (supposedly "anti-criminal", la BAC) is every year involved in scandals of drug trafficking, corruption, fake testimonies, assassinations, and many other mafia-like activities; the chief of anti-drugs police was arrested for being the top importer of drugs in the entire country, which everyone knew for many years - let's not even get into the even bigger corruption scandals at the heart of State (Cahuzac and so many other ministries found evading taxes, Macron enabling his personal bodyguard Benalla to dress up as a cop and beat random people on the streets, Sarkozy assassinating Kadhafi who illegally financed his political campaign...) These are just examples. The rule of law is just a myth we tell children so they're happy to be exploited by a boss and live miserably because they had a "fair chance" in life. The truth is laws and cops are the tools of the oppressors and have never served the people. The psychopaths in power will do all they want and can get away with, no matter what the law says. So yes, sorry to break your dreams, but that's how things work.
- rixed 5y ago
  > the chief of anti-drugs police was arrested for being the top importer of drugs in the entire country Sounds like rule of laws then? I see your point but I think you bent it a bit too much on the other side. Law is a tool that's used for many different things, from justifying oppression to arrest corrupt officials when they threaten the desired equilibrium.
  - southerntofu 5y ago
    > Sounds like rule of laws then? Yes and no, he was only arrested when his involvement became too obvious, but it was a well-known "secret" for many years on the streets that he was running the show the whole time. And out of all cops and politicians accused of serious crimes (rape, murder, theft) it's very rare to see any of them condemned. And when they are condemned to a prison sentence, it's usually never enforced. Many well-known french politicians have been condemned to a prison sentence but i've never heard of a single one of them actually sitting behind bar. This creates a culture of impunity in the official representatives. > arrest corrupt officials when they threaten the desired equilibrium Yes, precisely. Only when they're too much of a bother to defend, they're rid of. I heard in germanic countries corruption and crime in State representatives is taken more seriously and it's not uncommon for ministers to be kicked out of public affairs even before they're condemned. In France, corruption is business as usual, so you get in a situation where homeless people can be jailed for stealing food from a supermarket or cracking a squat in a building that was empty for many years, but people in power doing much more serious crimes will never face any sort of consequences beyond the very few independent media giving them bad press (which is not relayed by mainstream media which is owned by their friends from the industry). Differential justice based on class and connections does not fit into the definition of "rule of law". EDIT: Strongly recommend reading Michel Foucault's Discipline and Punish. It offers a certain perspective on how modern social control operates, and how "justice" is not an independent power.

dragonwriter 5y ago

>I'm confused because as far as I can tell the Patriot Act is not currently in force, having expired in 2020 Nope, most of it remains in force, only a small (but important) minority of it is covered by sunset provisions. [0] [0] https://www.aclu.org/other/patriot-act-sunsets https://www.aclu.org/other/patriot-act-sunsets

southerntofu 5y ago

If you believe in rule of law, you're gonna have a bad time! At least in France and USA (the examples i know best), written law has mostly never been applied: - NSA gathered tons of info before 9/11 and before dragnet surveillance was legal - CIA imported tons of cocaine to feed popular neighborhoods with crack (destroy solidarity) and finance their counter-revolutionary wars which Congress knew nothing about (like financing and arming the fascist Contras in Nicaragua) - let's not even talk about FBI's CoIntelPro program of surveillance, manipulation, and assassination of militants (see also: Cointelpro 101 documentary) - likewise in France, la Sûreté de l'État (CIA equivalent in the 19th century) persecuted anarchists long before the "lois scélérates" (scoundrel laws) outlawed anarchist propaganda - french police at the border deports people before they can apply for asylum, which is illegal in french law and according to international convention; just like french police deports romanian citizens back to Romania while it's illegal under Schengen accords - french criminal police (supposedly "anti-criminal", la BAC) is every year involved in scandals of drug trafficking, corruption, fake testimonies, assassinations, and many other mafia-like activities; the chief of anti-drugs police was arrested for being the top importer of drugs in the entire country, which everyone knew for many years - let's not even get into the even bigger corruption scandals at the heart of State (Cahuzac and so many other ministries found evading taxes, Macron enabling his personal bodyguard Benalla to dress up as a cop and beat random people on the streets, Sarkozy assassinating Kadhafi who illegally financed his political campaign...) These are just examples. The rule of law is just a myth we tell children so they're happy to be exploited by a boss and live miserably because they had a "fair chance" in life. The truth is laws and cops are the tools of the oppressors and have never served the people. The psychopaths in power will do all they want and can get away with, no matter what the law says. So yes, sorry to break your dreams, but that's how things work.

rixed 5y ago
> the chief of anti-drugs police was arrested for being the top importer of drugs in the entire country Sounds like rule of laws then? I see your point but I think you bent it a bit too much on the other side. Law is a tool that's used for many different things, from justifying oppression to arrest corrupt officials when they threaten the desired equilibrium.
- southerntofu 5y ago
  > Sounds like rule of laws then? Yes and no, he was only arrested when his involvement became too obvious, but it was a well-known "secret" for many years on the streets that he was running the show the whole time. And out of all cops and politicians accused of serious crimes (rape, murder, theft) it's very rare to see any of them condemned. And when they are condemned to a prison sentence, it's usually never enforced. Many well-known french politicians have been condemned to a prison sentence but i've never heard of a single one of them actually sitting behind bar. This creates a culture of impunity in the official representatives. > arrest corrupt officials when they threaten the desired equilibrium Yes, precisely. Only when they're too much of a bother to defend, they're rid of. I heard in germanic countries corruption and crime in State representatives is taken more seriously and it's not uncommon for ministers to be kicked out of public affairs even before they're condemned. In France, corruption is business as usual, so you get in a situation where homeless people can be jailed for stealing food from a supermarket or cracking a squat in a building that was empty for many years, but people in power doing much more serious crimes will never face any sort of consequences beyond the very few independent media giving them bad press (which is not relayed by mainstream media which is owned by their friends from the industry). Differential justice based on class and connections does not fit into the definition of "rule of law". EDIT: Strongly recommend reading Michel Foucault's Discipline and Punish. It offers a certain perspective on how modern social control operates, and how "justice" is not an independent power.