5 ms·

It's hard to overstate how tired the entire argument is. Doctorow feels like tweetstorms are an acceptable means of getting communication across (yikes), so m

It's hard to overstate how tired the entire argument is. Doctorow feels like tweetstorms are an acceptable means of getting communication across (yikes), so maybe some things are just unbridgable. HN sounds like cranks about this. In my podunk region 2 school I have access to all the journals I want, always have as a student. I rarely need that because it's easier to Google Scholar and then just grab the paper off of someone's site, which pretty mch everyone does these days. Some of the commenters here could have written a phd in the last decade about this topic but I don't think it's the massive stopper of progress that people think it is. Billions of dollars! Wish we didn't have to bust my ass to get a portion of that, but keep beating up on the academics.

civilized 5y ago
Some fields have good preprint representation while others don't. Talk to academics outside your field and you'll quickly learn this.
- crazy_horse 5y ago
  Could you provide examples?
  - civilized 5y ago
    Large swaths of the humanities and social sciences, biology, chemistry... There are exceptions of course. The preprinters tend to be the more CS/quantitative subfields of these disciplines.
    - crazy_horse 5y ago
      I work in the social sciences where we have lots of overlap with other social sciences, stats, and data science, machine learning. Those are the domains I know and in those domains anyone born after 1970 knows that if they want to distribute their work they put it on their site or a number of free archives.
      - civilized 5y ago
        As I said, you're probably in a more quant-oriented subfield like economics. Ask your colleagues in field biology, or physical chemistry, or anything less quant/CS/stats/data/tech-flavored.
ravel-bar-foo 5y ago
> HN sounds like cranks about this. In my podunk region 2 school I have access to all the journals I want, always have as a student. Perhaps you are in computer science. As long as we're trading anecdotes, I went to one of the top universities in my country. I regularly came across articles that were not accessible from large professional societies such as IEEE, ACS, and SPIE. Now I work in a hospital, and they don't have subscriptions to anything non-medical! I have to go through sci-hub for access to my own papers!
- crazy_horse 5y ago
  It sounds like to me to advance this debate, people could provide examples of journals that are regularly cited and their papers aren't easily accessible in some way.
  - civilized 5y ago
    [censored] I could go on. All of these journals' articles are sometimes available, especially for very highly cited articles, but not consistently. Medical research is often found on some NIH website though. The NIH has their shit together. I think they make everyone publish open access in addition to whatever journal they submit to.
    - crazy_horse 5y ago
      I went to Google Scholar and googled for articles from the top journal this year, picked a random article, the entire text is available. https://en.x-mol.com/paper/article/1429645420640583680 https://en.x-mol.com/paper/article/1429645420640583680 I know that is a single article and I get your larger point. It's very much a field by field issue, in my field (I've been told it isn't a real science by HN, so no thanks sharing), I can't imagine me or the profs I know taking people seriously if they aren't making their stff available.
    - gammarator 5y ago
      You deleted your examples, but the Astrophysical Journal will be 100% gold open access starting in January: https://journals.aas.org/oa/ https://journals.aas.org/oa/ The NSF also requires that all the work it funds be deposited in a public archive: https://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/public_access/about_repository.jsp https://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/public_access/about...
cdoctorow 5y ago
All of my Twitter threads also appear as blog posts: Here's this one: https://pluralistic.net/2021/10/28/clintons-ghost/#cornucopia-concordance https://pluralistic.net/2021/10/28/clintons-ghost/#cornucopi... It's also available as a Mastodon thread: https://mamot.fr/@pluralistic/107179959514393968 https://mamot.fr/@pluralistic/107179959514393968 And an ad-free, tracker-free, libre newsletter: https://mail.flarn.com/pipermail/plura-list/2021-October/000499.html https://mail.flarn.com/pipermail/plura-list/2021-October/000... It's also mirrored to Medium: https://doctorow.medium.com/all-of-science-gets-a-general-index-7bd53990fee1 https://doctorow.medium.com/all-of-science-gets-a-general-in... And Tumblr: https://mostlysignssomeportents.tumblr.com/post/666303506776489984/all-of-science-gets-a-general-index https://mostlysignssomeportents.tumblr.com/post/666303506776... There's also fulltext RSS: https://pluralistic.net/feed/ https://pluralistic.net/feed/ The text itself is licensed CC BY, so if none of those formats suit your taste, you can reformat it and republish it, and even charge money for it. ETA: Here's the methodology behind this: https://pluralistic.net/2021/01/13/two-decades/#hfbd https://pluralistic.net/2021/01/13/two-decades/#hfbd and here's the rubric for it: https://doctorow.medium.com/dead-letters-73924aa19f9d https://doctorow.medium.com/dead-letters-73924aa19f9d (also available as a podcast:) https://ia601408.us.archive.org/16/items/Cory_Doctorow_Podcast_405/Cory_Doctorow_Podcast_405_-_Dead_Letters.mp3 https://ia601408.us.archive.org/16/items/Cory_Doctorow_Podca...

civilized 5y ago

Some fields have good preprint representation while others don't. Talk to academics outside your field and you'll quickly learn this.

crazy_horse 5y ago
Could you provide examples?
- civilized 5y ago
  Large swaths of the humanities and social sciences, biology, chemistry... There are exceptions of course. The preprinters tend to be the more CS/quantitative subfields of these disciplines.
  - crazy_horse 5y ago
    I work in the social sciences where we have lots of overlap with other social sciences, stats, and data science, machine learning. Those are the domains I know and in those domains anyone born after 1970 knows that if they want to distribute their work they put it on their site or a number of free archives.
    - civilized 5y ago
      As I said, you're probably in a more quant-oriented subfield like economics. Ask your colleagues in field biology, or physical chemistry, or anything less quant/CS/stats/data/tech-flavored.

ravel-bar-foo 5y ago

> HN sounds like cranks about this. In my podunk region 2 school I have access to all the journals I want, always have as a student. Perhaps you are in computer science. As long as we're trading anecdotes, I went to one of the top universities in my country. I regularly came across articles that were not accessible from large professional societies such as IEEE, ACS, and SPIE. Now I work in a hospital, and they don't have subscriptions to anything non-medical! I have to go through sci-hub for access to my own papers!

crazy_horse 5y ago
It sounds like to me to advance this debate, people could provide examples of journals that are regularly cited and their papers aren't easily accessible in some way.
- civilized 5y ago
  [censored] I could go on. All of these journals' articles are sometimes available, especially for very highly cited articles, but not consistently. Medical research is often found on some NIH website though. The NIH has their shit together. I think they make everyone publish open access in addition to whatever journal they submit to.
  - crazy_horse 5y ago
    I went to Google Scholar and googled for articles from the top journal this year, picked a random article, the entire text is available. https://en.x-mol.com/paper/article/1429645420640583680 https://en.x-mol.com/paper/article/1429645420640583680 I know that is a single article and I get your larger point. It's very much a field by field issue, in my field (I've been told it isn't a real science by HN, so no thanks sharing), I can't imagine me or the profs I know taking people seriously if they aren't making their stff available.
  - gammarator 5y ago
    You deleted your examples, but the Astrophysical Journal will be 100% gold open access starting in January: https://journals.aas.org/oa/ https://journals.aas.org/oa/ The NSF also requires that all the work it funds be deposited in a public archive: https://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/public_access/about_repository.jsp https://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/public_access/about...

cdoctorow 5y ago

All of my Twitter threads also appear as blog posts: Here's this one: https://pluralistic.net/2021/10/28/clintons-ghost/#cornucopia-concordance https://pluralistic.net/2021/10/28/clintons-ghost/#cornucopi... It's also available as a Mastodon thread: https://mamot.fr/@pluralistic/107179959514393968 https://mamot.fr/@pluralistic/107179959514393968 And an ad-free, tracker-free, libre newsletter: https://mail.flarn.com/pipermail/plura-list/2021-October/000499.html https://mail.flarn.com/pipermail/plura-list/2021-October/000... It's also mirrored to Medium: https://doctorow.medium.com/all-of-science-gets-a-general-index-7bd53990fee1 https://doctorow.medium.com/all-of-science-gets-a-general-in... And Tumblr: https://mostlysignssomeportents.tumblr.com/post/666303506776489984/all-of-science-gets-a-general-index https://mostlysignssomeportents.tumblr.com/post/666303506776... There's also fulltext RSS: https://pluralistic.net/feed/ https://pluralistic.net/feed/ The text itself is licensed CC BY, so if none of those formats suit your taste, you can reformat it and republish it, and even charge money for it. ETA: Here's the methodology behind this: https://pluralistic.net/2021/01/13/two-decades/#hfbd https://pluralistic.net/2021/01/13/two-decades/#hfbd and here's the rubric for it: https://doctorow.medium.com/dead-letters-73924aa19f9d https://doctorow.medium.com/dead-letters-73924aa19f9d (also available as a podcast:) https://ia601408.us.archive.org/16/items/Cory_Doctorow_Podcast_405/Cory_Doctorow_Podcast_405_-_Dead_Letters.mp3 https://ia601408.us.archive.org/16/items/Cory_Doctorow_Podca...