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>Capitalism vs socialism isn’t about the existence of that capital, just who owns and how decisions are made. You can't just assume the existence of capital. I

>Capitalism vs socialism isn’t about the existence of that capital, just who owns and how decisions are made. You can't just assume the existence of capital. It's not an exogenous variable.

rsj_hn 5y ago
Capital is anything that creates wealth. Therefore if the society has wealth then it must have capital. Thus capital is one of the pillars on which civilization stands. People can argue who has control over capital, and what kinds of property rights are allowed, but the existence of capital is presupposed by all economic theories. I recommend Sydney Homer's A History of Interest Rates in which he traces interest rates from neolithic period up to the 20th Century. If you want to know what interest rates were charged in the time of ancient Egypt, or early African societies, or Native American tribes, or whatever happened to those French rentes, then this is the book for you. Here are some excerpts: - - - - - - Paleolithic man went out to find his food. Neolithic man produced his own food through agriculture and animal culture. His capital took the form of seeds, improved tools, and especially herds of animals. Capital accumulation led to a great increase in population and the opening up of vast new areas in Asia and Europe. Such capital permitted the further accumulation of possessions, the support of chieftains, and the building of cities. Cattle breeding has supplied us with many financial terms used in later money economies. For example, there is our own word capital and our term pecuniary, from pecus, meaning a “flock” in Latin. Sumerians used the word mas for calves and for interest. The Egyptian term ms, meaning interest, is derived from the verb msj, which means “to give birth.” Early Greeks, in fact, valued their precious metals in terms of cattle. [...] In Namaland, in Southwest Africa, cattle and beads were the original currencies. Debts were incurred in cattle (no rates quoted), and the difficulty of repayment often led to cattle raids into neighboring states. [...] In the French Sudan cattle were used until recently as currency for large transactions. Cattle loans were granted free of interest, but if a cow which was lent had a calf, the calf and the cow was claimed by the creditor. Similarly, in Uganda and French Equatorial Africa cattle and sheep were the bases of credit. In the former the creditor expected every third new birth as interest. In Northern Siberia, at least until recently, domesticated reindeer served as money. Loans were granted in reindeer. Among the Kirghiz of Siberia, horses and sheep served as money and were loaned out. The usual interest for such loans was 100%. - - - - - - Homer, Sidney; Sylla, Richard. A History of Interest Rates (Wiley Finance) (p. 53-58). Wiley. Kindle Edition.
quantified 5y ago
Let’s change the value of that variable, or pick an equation that omits it. Do we still have either capitalism or socialism?

>Capitalism vs socialism isn’t about the existence of that capital, just who owns and how decisions are made. You can't just assume the existence of capital. It's not an exogenous variable.

rsj_hn 5y ago

Capital is anything that creates wealth. Therefore if the society has wealth then it must have capital. Thus capital is one of the pillars on which civilization stands. People can argue who has control over capital, and what kinds of property rights are allowed, but the existence of capital is presupposed by all economic theories. I recommend Sydney Homer's A History of Interest Rates in which he traces interest rates from neolithic period up to the 20th Century. If you want to know what interest rates were charged in the time of ancient Egypt, or early African societies, or Native American tribes, or whatever happened to those French rentes, then this is the book for you. Here are some excerpts: - - - - - - Paleolithic man went out to find his food. Neolithic man produced his own food through agriculture and animal culture. His capital took the form of seeds, improved tools, and especially herds of animals. Capital accumulation led to a great increase in population and the opening up of vast new areas in Asia and Europe. Such capital permitted the further accumulation of possessions, the support of chieftains, and the building of cities. Cattle breeding has supplied us with many financial terms used in later money economies. For example, there is our own word capital and our term pecuniary, from pecus, meaning a “flock” in Latin. Sumerians used the word mas for calves and for interest. The Egyptian term ms, meaning interest, is derived from the verb msj, which means “to give birth.” Early Greeks, in fact, valued their precious metals in terms of cattle. [...] In Namaland, in Southwest Africa, cattle and beads were the original currencies. Debts were incurred in cattle (no rates quoted), and the difficulty of repayment often led to cattle raids into neighboring states. [...] In the French Sudan cattle were used until recently as currency for large transactions. Cattle loans were granted free of interest, but if a cow which was lent had a calf, the calf and the cow was claimed by the creditor. Similarly, in Uganda and French Equatorial Africa cattle and sheep were the bases of credit. In the former the creditor expected every third new birth as interest. In Northern Siberia, at least until recently, domesticated reindeer served as money. Loans were granted in reindeer. Among the Kirghiz of Siberia, horses and sheep served as money and were loaned out. The usual interest for such loans was 100%. - - - - - - Homer, Sidney; Sylla, Richard. A History of Interest Rates (Wiley Finance) (p. 53-58). Wiley. Kindle Edition.

quantified 5y ago

Let’s change the value of that variable, or pick an equation that omits it. Do we still have either capitalism or socialism?