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> Zuckerberg calls the metaverse "an embodied internet where you're in the experience, not just looking at it." A lot of the criticism is valid but it seems to

> Zuckerberg calls the metaverse "an embodied internet where you're in the experience, not just looking at it." A lot of the criticism is valid but it seems to me that many critics haven't experienced "embodiment". To me, that is the killer feature. Without it, the author is right, we already have the internet. I have a Oculus Quest that I don't use because there is not enough of that sense of embodiment. When the field of vision is extended to the periphery and the resolution is enough to not have the screen door effect, it will be much more likely to feel embodied. It's kind of mind blowing actually and the source of much of the quasi-religious fervor when some talk about VR.

larsiusprime 5y ago
I've experienced full "embodiment" with top end room-scale equipment. It's pretty cool, but it's nothing life changing, and certainly doesn't deserve the hype that is thankfully now starting to die down. I largely agree with the author.
- westoncb 5y ago
  What did you do while embodied? It seems dismissive to say it was tried and wasn't a big deal when it's such a vast heterogenous space of possibilities that getting a set of examples indicating upper bounds on available experiences would be highly non-trivial, esp. because it's so dependent on software, which we're still just beginning to explore. And even in our early exploration there's already huge variety, from e.g. spatial CAD to novel social formats to new physical/coordination skill based games, virtual theaters, educational tools etc. There is a wide range in how much being embodied is going to matter depending what you're doing in software. I think for an artist virtually sculpting 3d works it's not a stretch to say this could be life-changing, for example.
  - lovecg 5y ago
    I was just thinking that experiencing live spectator sports in VR will be a big deal when the camera technology catches up. Imagine being _on_ the field with the players!
    - y4mi 5y ago
      That's never going to work. You will always have to recreate the scene in an engine, otherwise you're unable to move your head away from the camera position... And that's nausea inducing af. My guess is that very few watchers would prefer a 3d reenactment over the 2d original stream, as the reenactment will always have less details or even show things incorrectly.
      - lovecg 5y ago
        Yeah that’s how I imagine it would have to be done (scene capture from many angles + 3d scene recreation) but I disagree on “that’s never going to work”. The number of everyday things that people in say 1950s would think were “never going to work” is staggering.
sorry_outta_gas 5y ago
This is all just zuck jealous of worlds like roblox, it's full of kids unlike facebook a big coporate rallying cry that they need to do something new to stay relevant in the future in truth they are as creative as a bag of rocks which is telling by their 3d re-creation of a boardroom and how unfun horizons is virtural worlds are going to continue to evolve and be a big thing but meta's not going to win
- downWidOutaFite 5y ago
  Oculus will keep them in the running.
  - sorry_outta_gas 5y ago
    I think that's true on the hardware side, but IMO it's more likely that various virtual worlds gain traction on 2d screens then support slowly support VR/AR which will bring more players into that market I feel like FB is already adding to much baggage and bloat to their stuff going on horizon a month or so ago annoying and frustrating overall. it's the whole cart before the horse thing; eg. their cryptocurrency project either way it gives the vibe of out of touch execs with massive resources at their disposal trying to prevent roblox/recroom/whatever from ending their fun by aiming "big" but they wont be able to
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
errantspark 5y ago
I imagine there are some lower hanging fruit for an embodied internet like not having ads and a general respect for providing me with value rather than trying to extract value from me.
CRConrad 5y ago
> A lot of the criticism is valid but it seems to me that many critics haven't experienced "embodiment". To me, that is the killer feature. Who gives a shit about that? The Internet is an immediately-accessible universe of ideas; that's infininitely bigger than any silly VR-based walled garden, which this oh-so-tediously-obviously is an attempt to create. So of course the robber barons / garden proprioetors in spe have to try and kill it and replace it with their puny "vision". Un-fucking-believable how anyone can fall for it.
- okareaman 5y ago
  "embodiment" really is the raison d'etre of virtual reality. Without it, you might as well explore the internet as usual. I get that some people don't get a rush from embodiment.
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    > I get that some people don't get a rush from embodiment I don't quite get that some do. :-) Heck, aren't we all embodied -- that is, in our actual bodies -- already? (And yes, I have tried it. Only the once, but at a facility with, AIUI, fairly high-end equipment.)

larsiusprime 5y ago

I've experienced full "embodiment" with top end room-scale equipment. It's pretty cool, but it's nothing life changing, and certainly doesn't deserve the hype that is thankfully now starting to die down. I largely agree with the author.

westoncb 5y ago
What did you do while embodied? It seems dismissive to say it was tried and wasn't a big deal when it's such a vast heterogenous space of possibilities that getting a set of examples indicating upper bounds on available experiences would be highly non-trivial, esp. because it's so dependent on software, which we're still just beginning to explore. And even in our early exploration there's already huge variety, from e.g. spatial CAD to novel social formats to new physical/coordination skill based games, virtual theaters, educational tools etc. There is a wide range in how much being embodied is going to matter depending what you're doing in software. I think for an artist virtually sculpting 3d works it's not a stretch to say this could be life-changing, for example.
- lovecg 5y ago
  I was just thinking that experiencing live spectator sports in VR will be a big deal when the camera technology catches up. Imagine being _on_ the field with the players!
  - y4mi 5y ago
    That's never going to work. You will always have to recreate the scene in an engine, otherwise you're unable to move your head away from the camera position... And that's nausea inducing af. My guess is that very few watchers would prefer a 3d reenactment over the 2d original stream, as the reenactment will always have less details or even show things incorrectly.
    - lovecg 5y ago
      Yeah that’s how I imagine it would have to be done (scene capture from many angles + 3d scene recreation) but I disagree on “that’s never going to work”. The number of everyday things that people in say 1950s would think were “never going to work” is staggering.

sorry_outta_gas 5y ago

This is all just zuck jealous of worlds like roblox, it's full of kids unlike facebook a big coporate rallying cry that they need to do something new to stay relevant in the future in truth they are as creative as a bag of rocks which is telling by their 3d re-creation of a boardroom and how unfun horizons is virtural worlds are going to continue to evolve and be a big thing but meta's not going to win

downWidOutaFite 5y ago
Oculus will keep them in the running.
- sorry_outta_gas 5y ago
  I think that's true on the hardware side, but IMO it's more likely that various virtual worlds gain traction on 2d screens then support slowly support VR/AR which will bring more players into that market I feel like FB is already adding to much baggage and bloat to their stuff going on horizon a month or so ago annoying and frustrating overall. it's the whole cart before the horse thing; eg. their cryptocurrency project either way it gives the vibe of out of touch execs with massive resources at their disposal trying to prevent roblox/recroom/whatever from ending their fun by aiming "big" but they wont be able to
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

errantspark 5y ago

I imagine there are some lower hanging fruit for an embodied internet like not having ads and a general respect for providing me with value rather than trying to extract value from me.

CRConrad 5y ago

> A lot of the criticism is valid but it seems to me that many critics haven't experienced "embodiment". To me, that is the killer feature. Who gives a shit about that? The Internet is an immediately-accessible universe of ideas; that's infininitely bigger than any silly VR-based walled garden, which this oh-so-tediously-obviously is an attempt to create. So of course the robber barons / garden proprioetors in spe have to try and kill it and replace it with their puny "vision". Un-fucking-believable how anyone can fall for it.

okareaman 5y ago
"embodiment" really is the raison d'etre of virtual reality. Without it, you might as well explore the internet as usual. I get that some people don't get a rush from embodiment.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  > I get that some people don't get a rush from embodiment I don't quite get that some do. :-) Heck, aren't we all embodied -- that is, in our actual bodies -- already? (And yes, I have tried it. Only the once, but at a facility with, AIUI, fairly high-end equipment.)