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It’s worse what really got him sacked was that he openly called for Jewish students to be targeted. > Professor Miller has said that there is “an all-out onsla

It’s worse what really got him sacked was that he openly called for Jewish students to be targeted. > Professor Miller has said that there is “an all-out onslaught by the Israeli government” to “impose their will all over the world”, and that all university Jewish societies (including Bristol’s), plus the Union of Jewish Students, are “directed by Israel” as part of this effort. More broadly, he says that Bristol Jewish Society belongs to a “Zionist movement” that he has characterised as “the enemy of the left, the enemy of world peace, and they must be directly targeted”. Miller says the goal is to “defeat the ideology of Zionism in practice” and “to end Zionism… as a functioning ideology of the world”. https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2021/03/why-academic-freedom-no-defence-bristol-university-professor-david-miller https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2021/03/why-academic-f... The guy is a first class nut job

tmule 5y ago
“ Miller says the goal is to “defeat the ideology of Zionism in practice” and “to end Zionism… as a functioning ideology of the world”.” That’s nutty in a world where nobody really hears Palestinian voices. In 50 years, the world will get there as Israel becomes more right wing, and the Jewish diaspora becomes less connected to Israel.
- dogma1138 5y ago
  That’s some crafty selective quoting you’ve done there, even if you agree with the isolated statement which is problematic on its own considering the wider definition of Zionism that’s not what he said. He said that Israel wants dominate the world, that Jewish students and the Bristol Jewish Student Union are Israeli assets and that their members should be directly targeted as they are “enemies of the left” what ever the fuck that means. I also find it odd that you claim that Palestinian voices are some how being unheard if anything they by far have the loudest voice of any group under similar circumstances. I’m also not entirely sure why would you gloat if Israel would become far more extremist and far more isolated than it is now, do you think it that would have any positive outcome for Palestinians?
  - tmule 5y ago
    Well, that the quoted part castigating Zionism is considered beyond the pale is part of the problem, right? I agree that the rest of his statements are problematic, but far more problematic is the warm reception given to Naftali Bennett - someone quite proud of his role in a killing Arabs - by western governments. “ I’m also not entirely sure why would you gloat if Israel would become far more extremist and far more isolated than it is now, do you think it that would have any positive outcome for Palestinians?” I think this may play out like South Africa did.
jollybean 5y ago
"and they must be directly targeted" Woof, so I change my position from 'just have him apologize' - to - he definitely losses his job over this, and may face criminal charges (although I don't think people should be charged for loose statements they make, if he formed an organization and made this an 'organizing principle' i.e. 'Jews must be targeted' - well, that would be 'hate speech', and I'm the last person to think that kind of thing applies, but I mean, this is bad.) Academic freedom gives you a lot of room to make statements that you think are true. Academic freedom does not give you the right to rally and politically organize, under the guise of said academic freedom, and then to directly promote the 'targeting' of minority groups. And I say this as someone who views many Israeli state and foreign policy actions as being highly suspect.
- noduerme 5y ago
  >> And I say this as someone who views many Israeli state and foreign policy actions as being highly suspect. It's a shame that this even has to be disclaimed to point out antisemitism. If he made a claim that Chinese students were pawns of the CCP and had to be "targeted", no one would need to say "and I don't support CCP policies" to make a credible allegation of racism.
  - jollybean 5y ago
    The terms 'racism, xenophobia, Islamophobia, antisemitic' are tossed around casually, and, I believe used inappropriately even by institutional entities in the media, government, and most scary, the judiciary. There's nary that much real authority on the use of those words, so we're forced to be nuanced and come to our own conclusions. For example, there's a big difference between 'agents of Israel' and 'Israel has direct influence among the student body' - even though they kind of mean the same thing. And of course, the Israeli government does have very material influence, the CCP even more so, institutionally, it's a real issue but we have to be careful how we talk about it. I also don't put to much stock in arbitrary comments made off of the cuff, and I think we should cut people some slack when speaking, which is different than what they might publish. The word 'targeted' wasn't really brought to the fore in the Miller issue, which is too bad, because that one word in particularly is strongly indicting. If the Unis press release were to have made specific reference to this, there might be a lot less hubub.

tmule 5y ago

“ Miller says the goal is to “defeat the ideology of Zionism in practice” and “to end Zionism… as a functioning ideology of the world”.” That’s nutty in a world where nobody really hears Palestinian voices. In 50 years, the world will get there as Israel becomes more right wing, and the Jewish diaspora becomes less connected to Israel.

dogma1138 5y ago
That’s some crafty selective quoting you’ve done there, even if you agree with the isolated statement which is problematic on its own considering the wider definition of Zionism that’s not what he said. He said that Israel wants dominate the world, that Jewish students and the Bristol Jewish Student Union are Israeli assets and that their members should be directly targeted as they are “enemies of the left” what ever the fuck that means. I also find it odd that you claim that Palestinian voices are some how being unheard if anything they by far have the loudest voice of any group under similar circumstances. I’m also not entirely sure why would you gloat if Israel would become far more extremist and far more isolated than it is now, do you think it that would have any positive outcome for Palestinians?
- tmule 5y ago
  Well, that the quoted part castigating Zionism is considered beyond the pale is part of the problem, right? I agree that the rest of his statements are problematic, but far more problematic is the warm reception given to Naftali Bennett - someone quite proud of his role in a killing Arabs - by western governments. “ I’m also not entirely sure why would you gloat if Israel would become far more extremist and far more isolated than it is now, do you think it that would have any positive outcome for Palestinians?” I think this may play out like South Africa did.

jollybean 5y ago

"and they must be directly targeted" Woof, so I change my position from 'just have him apologize' - to - he definitely losses his job over this, and may face criminal charges (although I don't think people should be charged for loose statements they make, if he formed an organization and made this an 'organizing principle' i.e. 'Jews must be targeted' - well, that would be 'hate speech', and I'm the last person to think that kind of thing applies, but I mean, this is bad.) Academic freedom gives you a lot of room to make statements that you think are true. Academic freedom does not give you the right to rally and politically organize, under the guise of said academic freedom, and then to directly promote the 'targeting' of minority groups. And I say this as someone who views many Israeli state and foreign policy actions as being highly suspect.

noduerme 5y ago
>> And I say this as someone who views many Israeli state and foreign policy actions as being highly suspect. It's a shame that this even has to be disclaimed to point out antisemitism. If he made a claim that Chinese students were pawns of the CCP and had to be "targeted", no one would need to say "and I don't support CCP policies" to make a credible allegation of racism.
- jollybean 5y ago
  The terms 'racism, xenophobia, Islamophobia, antisemitic' are tossed around casually, and, I believe used inappropriately even by institutional entities in the media, government, and most scary, the judiciary. There's nary that much real authority on the use of those words, so we're forced to be nuanced and come to our own conclusions. For example, there's a big difference between 'agents of Israel' and 'Israel has direct influence among the student body' - even though they kind of mean the same thing. And of course, the Israeli government does have very material influence, the CCP even more so, institutionally, it's a real issue but we have to be careful how we talk about it. I also don't put to much stock in arbitrary comments made off of the cuff, and I think we should cut people some slack when speaking, which is different than what they might publish. The word 'targeted' wasn't really brought to the fore in the Miller issue, which is too bad, because that one word in particularly is strongly indicting. If the Unis press release were to have made specific reference to this, there might be a lot less hubub.