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There is at least one proposal for a properly pronounceable gender-neutral version of German: https://delesystem.wordpress.com/ https://delesystem.wordpress.co

by bloak 5y ago

There is at least one proposal for a properly pronounceable gender-neutral version of German: https://delesystem.wordpress.com/ https://delesystem.wordpress.com/ -> https://geschlechtsneutral.net/ https://geschlechtsneutral.net/ Yes, it's quite a big change, but probably that's unavoidable with the constraints of what they want to achieve.

riedel 5y ago
Thanks for the links, as a German I did not even know that it existed. However, I am really surprised how well the gender gap can be pronounced by people with a glottal stop. IMHO the print form is the rather ugly bit. Maybe adding a glottal stop (ʔ) to the german alphabet would be the easier solution.
mmoll 5y ago
A much better idea than that horrible asterisk and its pronunciation. However, I think it still misses the mark. There‘s an opportunity to make German simpler AND more gender-neutral by completely dropping both the masculine and feminine forms. Other languages have done so (or got really close) before. English and Dutch (not the Flemish variant) being the closest ones to German. Instead of saying „die Bürger*innen“, you could just say „die Bürger“, which would simply be the plural form of „das Bürger“. It also avoids the whole „Bürger* innenmeister* innen“ issue…
- eska 5y ago
  How is that different from the status quo? Currently we say “der Bürger“ for a citizen of unknown or male sex. „der“ is male, so certain people perceive sexism. The plural for citizens of unknown, male or female sex is „die Bürger“. „die“ is female. Yet in this case no one perceives it as sexism. The proposal you refer to just removes the former while leaving the latter. By this logic of „the (der) spoon“ being sexist, it’s now just become sexist towards men? Add to this the fact that German has words to refer specifically to „female citizens“, „female doctors“ etc, but not for men, they’re generic. Yet no one complains.

by bloak 5y ago

riedel 5y ago

Thanks for the links, as a German I did not even know that it existed. However, I am really surprised how well the gender gap can be pronounced by people with a glottal stop. IMHO the print form is the rather ugly bit. Maybe adding a glottal stop (ʔ) to the german alphabet would be the easier solution.

mmoll 5y ago

A much better idea than that horrible asterisk and its pronunciation. However, I think it still misses the mark. There‘s an opportunity to make German simpler AND more gender-neutral by completely dropping both the masculine and feminine forms. Other languages have done so (or got really close) before. English and Dutch (not the Flemish variant) being the closest ones to German. Instead of saying „die Bürger*innen“, you could just say „die Bürger“, which would simply be the plural form of „das Bürger“. It also avoids the whole „Bürger* innenmeister* innen“ issue…

eska 5y ago
How is that different from the status quo? Currently we say “der Bürger“ for a citizen of unknown or male sex. „der“ is male, so certain people perceive sexism. The plural for citizens of unknown, male or female sex is „die Bürger“. „die“ is female. Yet in this case no one perceives it as sexism. The proposal you refer to just removes the former while leaving the latter. By this logic of „the (der) spoon“ being sexist, it’s now just become sexist towards men? Add to this the fact that German has words to refer specifically to „female citizens“, „female doctors“ etc, but not for men, they’re generic. Yet no one complains.