5 ms·

I'd be in the opposite camp. Video game stories are those things I have to quickly click through to get to the next bit of action. Ya, ya, ya, bla, bla, bla, cl

I'd be in the opposite camp. Video game stories are those things I have to quickly click through to get to the next bit of action. Ya, ya, ya, bla, bla, bla, click, click click, don't care. My ideal is to create my own story rather than have it spoon fed to me. Let me roll a character then let me do what I want in an interactive open world. Sure, some curating and minor direction is OK, but the less the better. I don't remember much of the story of GTA 3 other than slogging through it to open the city up but surfing a car all over town causing mayhem or endlessly jumping the ski jump on the third island, those are the memories of that game I remember vividly and cherish. To enhance this I absolutely love good procedural generation. Finding that one out of a thousand planet in No Mans Sky and just exploring it, taking screen shots knowing that I'm likely the only person who will ever visit it, wonderful. The other problem with modern video game stories I notice now that I have a kid: there are plenty of video games that action wise I have no problem letting my kid play but can't due to the story and mainly the cut scenes. Seems to be a path to some edgy cred when the base action does not really justify it.

humblepie 5y ago
This is what I do since, I don't know, King's Quest series? After the death of adventure games I don't care about stories anymore. The graphics and the gameplay carry all the weight now. The Assassin's Creed series-what is this Animus crap? Just make the character be that assassin guy instead of switching to some pandering story about a time computer. Seeing what they did to ancient settings and bringing these cities to life is cool but have no time for little stories.
- ace2358 5y ago
  I can’t stand that animus stuff honestly I usually turn it off after one of those scenes just to wash it away. Totally destroys the game for me (which I only just started with origins and odyssey)
teawrecks 5y ago
> there are plenty of video games that action wise I have no problem letting my kid play but can't due to the story and mainly the cut scenes. Examples?
- BashiBazouk 5y ago
  Endless examples. But currently Diablo 2 Resurrected and Assassin's Creed Odyssey.
- setr 5y ago
  Sengoku Rance is my favorite example of this — a hentai game whose game mechanics and plot are so engrossing that no one sticks around for the hentai
015a 5y ago
I'd tend to agree. I think games need to be better about "picking a camp". Many games try to force a strong narrative into an open world design, and both qualities end up faltering because of it. Examples: Mass Effect, God of War, Horizon Zero Dawn, most Ubisoft games. The best open world games tell very light narrative. They may have tons of lore to fall upon and discover, but there's otherwise very little arc to the narrative you're progressing through during your time in the game. Examples: Dark Souls 1, Breath of the Wild. The best narratively-focused games severely limit players' freedoms in how to approach the high-level narrative beats. Some great ones do give some freedoms in how to approach tactical situations (The Last of Us 2), but this doesn't impact the broader arc. Other examples: Bioshock/Infinite, Nier Automata, Portal 2. There are vanishingly few examples of games which actually do both with high competence. I'd list: Witcher 3, Red Dead 2, Dragon Age Origins as examples. One quality shared among these games is how weak their high level narrative is allowed to be, in exchange for much stronger shorter side-narratives. When people say Witcher 3 has a great story, what they really mean is: It tells tons of very high quality short stories. Similarly with RDR2, the overarching "end of the cowboy" narrative is great, but its the ambient storytelling of the world that sells it as having great storytelling chops. The bigger issue with narratively-focused games is how the game needs to convince the player that this was worth being a game, and not a TV Show. I feel games like those listed above (TLOU2, Bioshock, Nier, Portal) do this very well, because the beat-to-beat gameplay is compelling despite the strict world architecture. But, many other games which tell strong narratives falter too quickly in providing great gameplay (Telltale games, Firewatch, What Remains of Edith Finch) to justify it being a game. I don't generally hold this against the game, because ultimately if you want to tell a great narrative, and you know how to build games, you'll tell that narrative through a game, that ain't bad, its just one medium among many. But I also fully understand the counter-argument; its sold as a game. People have expectations going into a game, that it won't be a movie, yet that's basically all Telltale ever made, Bandersnatch-style clickable movies. Discussions like this are one of the things I love about gaming; its such a nascent medium, its still trying to find its footing and what makes a game great. Why is Breath of the Wild so much better than Immortals: Fenyx Rising? I've played both a ton, I've thought about it a ton, and I still don't feel that I have a compelling answer which wouldn't be a 200 page essay. BotW copied a ton of gameplay elements from earlier Ubisoft games. Ubisoft then copied a ton of gameplay elements from BotW for Immortals. Yet, the Ubisoft products are never as good. What makes BotW special? Can Nintendo replicate it for BotW2? Do they even want to? Probably not; despite developing the same franchises for decades, Nintendo rarely retreads gameplay ground; so, follow-up question, how the hell is Nintendo so good at consistently creating new gameplay experiences? Why have so vanishingly few companies replicated their production success?
karaterobot 5y ago
> Video game stories are those things I have to quickly click through to get to the next bit of action. I don't think you're in the opposite camp as he is. Your point above is essentially his Observation 2. > the vast majority of players just tune out the story. As long as you let them skip past it, it's fine.
AlbertCory 5y ago
Never being one to avoid shamelessly plugging my book ("book" -- see what I did there?) We played MazeWar at Xerox in the late 70s. The guy on the cover of my book is Jeffrey Smith, the son of Dave Smith, the inventor of icons. The story ("story" -- see? I did it there again) is that Dave and his wife Janet, 2 weeks overdue with Jeffrey, went to PARC to kill some time, she saw the bloody eyeball on the screen, and the adrenaline made her go into labor and deliver Jeffrey. I found a working Alto, and shot the photograph in Nov. 2020, using the real MazeWar software. He loved reenacting the family legend. [1] https://www.albertcory.io https://www.albertcory.io
- crazy_horse 5y ago
  I feel like you are providing an example. I came to this thread to read a thread about videogame stories. Imagine my surprise (wait, this is HN), when the first thing that I see is your comment about videogames that isn't really about videogames it's a way for you to sell your book, which you admit you are shameless about. But I just wanted to reed about videogames. If you were more subtle, if you knew how tll me a story without telling me that you are telling a story, then it's not wasting my time and I can get what I came for as well as what you want me to learn.
AtlasBarfed 5y ago
I think this is typical of one-playthrough stuff. You'll be so concerned with adapting your brain to the mechanics and artificial limitations on a semi-real-appearing world (cue Zero Punc's knee high fence stalwart joke), do you have time for any story of complexity? If a game is good, you'll play through twice. THEN if they're really good, you'll pick up more of the story, especially easter eggs if they are competent. RE: edgy cred, yeah, that's still the maturation of the market. The problem with video games still remains the catering-to-teenager previous two decades. It's like any large budget or worthwhile game was all shonen manga. And really it still has that core. Video games will eventually branch out. I bring up manga, because I think games in Japan have always been more about characters, plot, and complexity, and had more offball ones. The characters in American games are still pretty crappy. Consider that DOOM and Halo are headed by... generic McToxicMale-SchwartzeneggerPredator-In-A-Helmet. All the other shooter games were stuck in the same rut.

humblepie 5y ago

This is what I do since, I don't know, King's Quest series? After the death of adventure games I don't care about stories anymore. The graphics and the gameplay carry all the weight now. The Assassin's Creed series-what is this Animus crap? Just make the character be that assassin guy instead of switching to some pandering story about a time computer. Seeing what they did to ancient settings and bringing these cities to life is cool but have no time for little stories.

ace2358 5y ago
I can’t stand that animus stuff honestly I usually turn it off after one of those scenes just to wash it away. Totally destroys the game for me (which I only just started with origins and odyssey)

teawrecks 5y ago

> there are plenty of video games that action wise I have no problem letting my kid play but can't due to the story and mainly the cut scenes. Examples?

BashiBazouk 5y ago
Endless examples. But currently Diablo 2 Resurrected and Assassin's Creed Odyssey.
setr 5y ago
Sengoku Rance is my favorite example of this — a hentai game whose game mechanics and plot are so engrossing that no one sticks around for the hentai

015a 5y ago

I'd tend to agree. I think games need to be better about "picking a camp". Many games try to force a strong narrative into an open world design, and both qualities end up faltering because of it. Examples: Mass Effect, God of War, Horizon Zero Dawn, most Ubisoft games. The best open world games tell very light narrative. They may have tons of lore to fall upon and discover, but there's otherwise very little arc to the narrative you're progressing through during your time in the game. Examples: Dark Souls 1, Breath of the Wild. The best narratively-focused games severely limit players' freedoms in how to approach the high-level narrative beats. Some great ones do give some freedoms in how to approach tactical situations (The Last of Us 2), but this doesn't impact the broader arc. Other examples: Bioshock/Infinite, Nier Automata, Portal 2. There are vanishingly few examples of games which actually do both with high competence. I'd list: Witcher 3, Red Dead 2, Dragon Age Origins as examples. One quality shared among these games is how weak their high level narrative is allowed to be, in exchange for much stronger shorter side-narratives. When people say Witcher 3 has a great story, what they really mean is: It tells tons of very high quality short stories. Similarly with RDR2, the overarching "end of the cowboy" narrative is great, but its the ambient storytelling of the world that sells it as having great storytelling chops. The bigger issue with narratively-focused games is how the game needs to convince the player that this was worth being a game, and not a TV Show. I feel games like those listed above (TLOU2, Bioshock, Nier, Portal) do this very well, because the beat-to-beat gameplay is compelling despite the strict world architecture. But, many other games which tell strong narratives falter too quickly in providing great gameplay (Telltale games, Firewatch, What Remains of Edith Finch) to justify it being a game. I don't generally hold this against the game, because ultimately if you want to tell a great narrative, and you know how to build games, you'll tell that narrative through a game, that ain't bad, its just one medium among many. But I also fully understand the counter-argument; its sold as a game. People have expectations going into a game, that it won't be a movie, yet that's basically all Telltale ever made, Bandersnatch-style clickable movies. Discussions like this are one of the things I love about gaming; its such a nascent medium, its still trying to find its footing and what makes a game great. Why is Breath of the Wild so much better than Immortals: Fenyx Rising? I've played both a ton, I've thought about it a ton, and I still don't feel that I have a compelling answer which wouldn't be a 200 page essay. BotW copied a ton of gameplay elements from earlier Ubisoft games. Ubisoft then copied a ton of gameplay elements from BotW for Immortals. Yet, the Ubisoft products are never as good. What makes BotW special? Can Nintendo replicate it for BotW2? Do they even want to? Probably not; despite developing the same franchises for decades, Nintendo rarely retreads gameplay ground; so, follow-up question, how the hell is Nintendo so good at consistently creating new gameplay experiences? Why have so vanishingly few companies replicated their production success?

karaterobot 5y ago

> Video game stories are those things I have to quickly click through to get to the next bit of action. I don't think you're in the opposite camp as he is. Your point above is essentially his Observation 2. > the vast majority of players just tune out the story. As long as you let them skip past it, it's fine.

AlbertCory 5y ago

Never being one to avoid shamelessly plugging my book ("book" -- see what I did there?) We played MazeWar at Xerox in the late 70s. The guy on the cover of my book is Jeffrey Smith, the son of Dave Smith, the inventor of icons. The story ("story" -- see? I did it there again) is that Dave and his wife Janet, 2 weeks overdue with Jeffrey, went to PARC to kill some time, she saw the bloody eyeball on the screen, and the adrenaline made her go into labor and deliver Jeffrey. I found a working Alto, and shot the photograph in Nov. 2020, using the real MazeWar software. He loved reenacting the family legend. [1] https://www.albertcory.io https://www.albertcory.io

crazy_horse 5y ago
I feel like you are providing an example. I came to this thread to read a thread about videogame stories. Imagine my surprise (wait, this is HN), when the first thing that I see is your comment about videogames that isn't really about videogames it's a way for you to sell your book, which you admit you are shameless about. But I just wanted to reed about videogames. If you were more subtle, if you knew how tll me a story without telling me that you are telling a story, then it's not wasting my time and I can get what I came for as well as what you want me to learn.

AtlasBarfed 5y ago

I think this is typical of one-playthrough stuff. You'll be so concerned with adapting your brain to the mechanics and artificial limitations on a semi-real-appearing world (cue Zero Punc's knee high fence stalwart joke), do you have time for any story of complexity? If a game is good, you'll play through twice. THEN if they're really good, you'll pick up more of the story, especially easter eggs if they are competent. RE: edgy cred, yeah, that's still the maturation of the market. The problem with video games still remains the catering-to-teenager previous two decades. It's like any large budget or worthwhile game was all shonen manga. And really it still has that core. Video games will eventually branch out. I bring up manga, because I think games in Japan have always been more about characters, plot, and complexity, and had more offball ones. The characters in American games are still pretty crappy. Consider that DOOM and Halo are headed by... generic McToxicMale-SchwartzeneggerPredator-In-A-Helmet. All the other shooter games were stuck in the same rut.