4 ms·

> Good story isn't what gamers are after. Which is good, because they ain't gettin' it. I emphatically disagree. Good story is what I'm after. Good story is wh

> Good story isn't what gamers are after. Which is good, because they ain't gettin' it. I emphatically disagree. Good story is what I'm after. Good story is what I've gotten. (Undertale, the Nier games, even Ocarina of Time has a very unique story-telling experience). A game can tell a different type of story than a book or a movie - these stories are interactive, and involve an element of meta-narrative story-telling. What was that fight like? What was that choice like? Did the choice _feel_ meaningful? The story is told through these mechanisms rather than simply words on a page. I very much agree that many players come to games for a carnal feeling. A release that comes from the ticking of boxes or completion of objectives, or the satisfaction from a skilled execution. But these elements as well can contribute to a narrative experience (ex Undertale). Really disagree with this article. Reminds me of those historical articles about movies being a worse version of the theatre and opera (which they were).

senectus1 5y ago
yeah I yearn for good story line, but I find myself putting up with weak ones.
- t-3 5y ago
  It's gotten to the point that I just don't buy or play new games from American or Japanese studios. It's too disappointing to pick up new releases of series that I've played for more than half my life (such as the Tales series) and find everything that made them great ripped out and replaced with consumerist trash that panders to the lowest common denominator. China seems to be the only country that still has some original and compelling new games and stories being produced.
  - haunter 5y ago
    I feel the opposite there are good story games coming from Japan still. Yakuza Like a Dragon, DQXI, Death Stranding. And FFXIV of course going stronger and stronger. Just a few from the recent years.
  - yunusabd 5y ago
    Got some examples for good games from China? As a counterexample to the first part, check out Nier Automata. One of the most original and compelling games I've played in recent years.
    - t-3 5y ago
      I own Nier, but never beat it. I enjoyed the aesthetic and gameplay, but often end up going back to old favorites when I sit down to relax. I should take a weekend or two and get back into it. Bright Memory Infinite is a new game from China that's coming out in November, the demo is incredible and I'm excited. Gujian3 is an open-world action rpg, similar to Nier but with a xianxia theme, it's pretty good. Amazing Cultivation Simulator is a Rimworld clone with a lot of fun features. Path of Wuxia is a very original and fun martial-arts-school/dating-sim/srpg with a lot of replayability (only fan-translated for now, but an official english translation is slated for when it comes out of early access).
      - yunusabd 5y ago
        That's really interesting, I remember trying to get my hands on Gujian 2 when it first came out, which was impossible at that time. Glad to see it's now on Steam! I think at first I played Nier Automata mainly for the mechanics. The worldbuilding and backstory take a while to pick up steam. But once it gets going, it has some unique and interesting ideas. I still feel they could have gone a lot deeper with a lot of things though. For example, the idea that robots would start their own religion seemed intriguing, but in the end they didn't really do much with it. Still very enjoyable and surprisingly a lot of food for thought. Thanks for the suggestions, I'll check them out!
    - SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
      I actually found nier automatas story beats so cringey that I was turned off on the playing of it, honestly. Pretty early on a pile of robots start an orgy that creates a human-looking clearly-not-a-human villain. It felt totally directionless and random at the time. I didn’t really want to continue if I was just going to get weird shit happening with an overlay of philosophical hand waving.
saurik 5y ago
Yeah: while there certainly exist people who don't care about the narrative elements of a game, that largely becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy more than anything else, as the audience and market for your products evolves to be the subset of people who like the things you build, which is not the same thing as "people in general like the things I build", and certainly the same as "everyone likes the thing I build". (A lot of software developers--and I think particularly designers--fall into this analysis trap of ignoring selection bias.) The games that had the biggest impact on me were adventure games and role playing games that had deep stories written by people who knew how to blend intrigue and humor into an enjoyable experience of you living in the shoes of the main character. I play games without good narratives, but they have to be much better games to compensate, as a good story can make me ignore some pretty horrible mechanics. (I also play certain classes of puzzle and rhythm games where story is irrelevant, but those are a totally differently head space and don't compete for my time with other games.)

senectus1 5y ago

yeah I yearn for good story line, but I find myself putting up with weak ones.

t-3 5y ago
It's gotten to the point that I just don't buy or play new games from American or Japanese studios. It's too disappointing to pick up new releases of series that I've played for more than half my life (such as the Tales series) and find everything that made them great ripped out and replaced with consumerist trash that panders to the lowest common denominator. China seems to be the only country that still has some original and compelling new games and stories being produced.
- haunter 5y ago
  I feel the opposite there are good story games coming from Japan still. Yakuza Like a Dragon, DQXI, Death Stranding. And FFXIV of course going stronger and stronger. Just a few from the recent years.
- yunusabd 5y ago
  Got some examples for good games from China? As a counterexample to the first part, check out Nier Automata. One of the most original and compelling games I've played in recent years.
  - t-3 5y ago
    I own Nier, but never beat it. I enjoyed the aesthetic and gameplay, but often end up going back to old favorites when I sit down to relax. I should take a weekend or two and get back into it. Bright Memory Infinite is a new game from China that's coming out in November, the demo is incredible and I'm excited. Gujian3 is an open-world action rpg, similar to Nier but with a xianxia theme, it's pretty good. Amazing Cultivation Simulator is a Rimworld clone with a lot of fun features. Path of Wuxia is a very original and fun martial-arts-school/dating-sim/srpg with a lot of replayability (only fan-translated for now, but an official english translation is slated for when it comes out of early access).
    - yunusabd 5y ago
      That's really interesting, I remember trying to get my hands on Gujian 2 when it first came out, which was impossible at that time. Glad to see it's now on Steam! I think at first I played Nier Automata mainly for the mechanics. The worldbuilding and backstory take a while to pick up steam. But once it gets going, it has some unique and interesting ideas. I still feel they could have gone a lot deeper with a lot of things though. For example, the idea that robots would start their own religion seemed intriguing, but in the end they didn't really do much with it. Still very enjoyable and surprisingly a lot of food for thought. Thanks for the suggestions, I'll check them out!
  - SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
    I actually found nier automatas story beats so cringey that I was turned off on the playing of it, honestly. Pretty early on a pile of robots start an orgy that creates a human-looking clearly-not-a-human villain. It felt totally directionless and random at the time. I didn’t really want to continue if I was just going to get weird shit happening with an overlay of philosophical hand waving.

saurik 5y ago

Yeah: while there certainly exist people who don't care about the narrative elements of a game, that largely becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy more than anything else, as the audience and market for your products evolves to be the subset of people who like the things you build, which is not the same thing as "people in general like the things I build", and certainly the same as "everyone likes the thing I build". (A lot of software developers--and I think particularly designers--fall into this analysis trap of ignoring selection bias.) The games that had the biggest impact on me were adventure games and role playing games that had deep stories written by people who knew how to blend intrigue and humor into an enjoyable experience of you living in the shoes of the main character. I play games without good narratives, but they have to be much better games to compensate, as a good story can make me ignore some pretty horrible mechanics. (I also play certain classes of puzzle and rhythm games where story is irrelevant, but those are a totally differently head space and don't compete for my time with other games.)