5 ms·

In addition to hydro and fossil fuels, (most) energy storage setups are quickly dispatchable. I don’t think the question is “is natural gas better than nuclear

In addition to hydro and fossil fuels, (most) energy storage setups are quickly dispatchable. I don’t think the question is “is natural gas better than nuclear?”. It’s more “nuclear isn’t quickly dispatchable, which is what we need”. It’s not that gas is better than nuclear, it’s that they solve two different problems. Solar and wind need something to fill gaps when production fluctuates. Today that can be hydro or fossil fuels. In the near future, that will also be storage. For the foreseeable future, nuclear can’t fill that role. Demand response is an interesting concept, and a subset of researchers have been pushing it for years. I’m skeptical that the economics would work out (large fixed costs mean that there’s pressure to run 24/7 and eat the high electricity prices), but I’d be happy to be proven wrong. That said, it doesn’t fix the fundamental problem that sometimes the wind dies at night, and something needs to turn on in the next 5 minutes or streetlights start going out. Right now, nuclear isn’t capable of filling that niche.

doikor 5y ago
> “nuclear isn’t quickly dispatchable, which is what we need” > something needs to turn on in the next 5 minutes or streetlights start going out. Right now, nuclear isn’t capable of filling that niche. Depends on the reactor. A single ~1GW reactor should be able to adjust its output up by 150MW or so in 5 minutes. If you have multiple that number multiplies obviously. For example a typical reactor in France with a max output of 1300MW can be adjusted all the way down to 400MW within 30 minutes (and up to max 1300MW output from minimumn 400MW in the same time). If they could not do that there is no way France could generate 70%+ of their electricity with nuclear. (obviously the reactor has to be designed with the goal of being adjustable for it to be able to do this. France started to do this in the 80s) edit: Though because the vast majority of the costs of running a nuclear power plant is in building/maintaining it and running it at max vs min output costs the same amount of money most owners want to run their reactor at max output always.
- foepys 5y ago
  France and Germany stabilize each other's nets. There actually isn't really a "French" or "German net" anymore as all European countries are very tightly connected nowadays.
dmitriid 5y ago
> In addition to hydro and fossil fuels, (most) energy storage setups are quickly dispatchable. Ah yes. We already have enough storage capacity to provide for hundreds of megawatts of daily power fluctuation. See Figure E.2 https://www.oecd-nea.org/ndd/reports/2011/load-following-npp.pdf https://www.oecd-nea.org/ndd/reports/2011/load-following-npp...

doikor 5y ago

> “nuclear isn’t quickly dispatchable, which is what we need” > something needs to turn on in the next 5 minutes or streetlights start going out. Right now, nuclear isn’t capable of filling that niche. Depends on the reactor. A single ~1GW reactor should be able to adjust its output up by 150MW or so in 5 minutes. If you have multiple that number multiplies obviously. For example a typical reactor in France with a max output of 1300MW can be adjusted all the way down to 400MW within 30 minutes (and up to max 1300MW output from minimumn 400MW in the same time). If they could not do that there is no way France could generate 70%+ of their electricity with nuclear. (obviously the reactor has to be designed with the goal of being adjustable for it to be able to do this. France started to do this in the 80s) edit: Though because the vast majority of the costs of running a nuclear power plant is in building/maintaining it and running it at max vs min output costs the same amount of money most owners want to run their reactor at max output always.

foepys 5y ago
France and Germany stabilize each other's nets. There actually isn't really a "French" or "German net" anymore as all European countries are very tightly connected nowadays.

dmitriid 5y ago

> In addition to hydro and fossil fuels, (most) energy storage setups are quickly dispatchable. Ah yes. We already have enough storage capacity to provide for hundreds of megawatts of daily power fluctuation. See Figure E.2 https://www.oecd-nea.org/ndd/reports/2011/load-following-npp.pdf https://www.oecd-nea.org/ndd/reports/2011/load-following-npp...