4 ms·

Wanton disregard for human life is an Asian “social norm”? I truly hope you are wrong.

AussieWog93 5y ago
I was referring to the social norms around criticism of authority. There is a much greater expectation of tact and constructiveness compared to the West. The Singaporean government is doing the wrong thing by executing this man, but GP's flippant remarks were not the way to express this.
- SturgeonsLaw 5y ago
  Heaven forbid we hurt the government's feelings while they murder someone for carrying a small amount of powder
  - ayngg 5y ago
    It is pretty easy to criticize social policy like this in a vacuum but really the extremely hard stance regarding drug contraband in that region is at the very least understandable given the historical context.
    - EdwardDiego 5y ago
      What's the historical context that leads to hanging drug smugglers?
      - sofixa 5y ago
        The Opium wars.
        EdwardDiego 5y ago
        A law passed in 1973 and amended in 1977 was based on the British use of force in China in the 19th century to sell opium? Feels like a long bow, but go on, I'm listening. The sources I can find state: "Then Minister for Home Affairs and Education, Chua Sian Chin said (Sing., Parliamentary Debates, vol. 37, col. 34 (27 May 1977)) - unless drug trafficking and drug addiction [are] checked, they [will] threaten our national security and viability. To do this, both punitive and preventive measures must be taken. The [Misuse of Drugs] Act was thus amended to provide enhanced penalties for traffickers, including mandatory death penalty for drug trafficking and manufacturing”. So I'm wondering what was going in Singapore in the 70s.
        petre 5y ago
        Most likely hardlines in power. Much like early South Korea and Taiwan, who's people had fortunately broken out of this trap. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Action_Party https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Action_Party
        throw_away 5y ago
        In South Korea today, you can be imprisoned for five years just for having any drugs in your system (follicle test) no matter where ingested & South Korean citizens can be punished for consuming drugs abroad where they would otherwise be legal: https://medium.com/@alexjanmaat2/recreational-drugs-in-korea-601116a32bd7 https://medium.com/@alexjanmaat2/recreational-drugs-in-korea... In Taiwan today, manufacturing, selling, or transporting Cocaine is a mandatory life (or death) sentence: https://law.moj.gov.tw/ENG/LawClass/LawAll.aspx?pcode=C0000008 https://law.moj.gov.tw/ENG/LawClass/LawAll.aspx?pcode=C00000...
        petre 5y ago
        At least they've had another party in power since they've gained independence and there's momentum for change. There is hope.
        sofixa 5y ago
        Opium is important in the history of Singapore. The city was mainly developed for and by the opium trade, but also faced issues due to legal local consumption up to the 1940s. It's not what directly brought the draconian legislation in the 1970s, but it certainly contributed. Some history on opium and Singapore: https://biblioasia.nlb.gov.sg/vol-11/issue-3/oct-dec-2015/dragon https://biblioasia.nlb.gov.sg/vol-11/issue-3/oct-dec-2015/dr...
        EdwardDiego 5y ago
        Thanks, I'll have a read :)
        ayngg 5y ago
  - AussieWog93 5y ago
    Fair enough. It's tone deaf and practically guaranteed to lead to zero change, but at least you - living comfortably in a country where you'll never have to deal with the real-world implications of harsh laws like this - get to feel good about being rude to someone on the internet.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- southerntofu 5y ago
  > I was referring to the social norms around criticism of authority. There is a much greater expectation of tact and constructiveness compared to the West. I've never been to Asia myself, but knowing some Asian people and knowing a little about Asian history i think you are wrong. Like everywhere else, Asia is filled with revolutionaries who despise authority and revolt in any way they can. Just because some people respect authoritarian figures and their abuses of power doesn't mean everybody has to show "respect". I personally don't have any respect for most governments around this planet (including France/USA), because these governments don't have any respect for human lives and freedom. I live in a country where it's illegal to criticize the police or insult the president. Some people live in a country where it's illegal to suggest the king may be wrong. People like you are just enforcing that kind of power dynamic which some of us are interested to dismantle in flames. (Also worth noting: Asia is a BIG continent and you're making a huge generalization about billions of people... which i don't think holds at all)

I was referring to the social norms around criticism of authority. There is a much greater expectation of tact and constructiveness compared to the West. The Singaporean government is doing the wrong thing by executing this man, but GP's flippant remarks were not the way to express this.

SturgeonsLaw 5y ago
Heaven forbid we hurt the government's feelings while they murder someone for carrying a small amount of powder
- ayngg 5y ago
  It is pretty easy to criticize social policy like this in a vacuum but really the extremely hard stance regarding drug contraband in that region is at the very least understandable given the historical context.
  - EdwardDiego 5y ago
    What's the historical context that leads to hanging drug smugglers?
    - sofixa 5y ago
      The Opium wars.
      - EdwardDiego 5y ago
        A law passed in 1973 and amended in 1977 was based on the British use of force in China in the 19th century to sell opium? Feels like a long bow, but go on, I'm listening. The sources I can find state: "Then Minister for Home Affairs and Education, Chua Sian Chin said (Sing., Parliamentary Debates, vol. 37, col. 34 (27 May 1977)) - unless drug trafficking and drug addiction [are] checked, they [will] threaten our national security and viability. To do this, both punitive and preventive measures must be taken. The [Misuse of Drugs] Act was thus amended to provide enhanced penalties for traffickers, including mandatory death penalty for drug trafficking and manufacturing”. So I'm wondering what was going in Singapore in the 70s.
        petre 5y ago
        Most likely hardlines in power. Much like early South Korea and Taiwan, who's people had fortunately broken out of this trap. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Action_Party https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Action_Party
        throw_away 5y ago
        In South Korea today, you can be imprisoned for five years just for having any drugs in your system (follicle test) no matter where ingested & South Korean citizens can be punished for consuming drugs abroad where they would otherwise be legal: https://medium.com/@alexjanmaat2/recreational-drugs-in-korea-601116a32bd7 https://medium.com/@alexjanmaat2/recreational-drugs-in-korea... In Taiwan today, manufacturing, selling, or transporting Cocaine is a mandatory life (or death) sentence: https://law.moj.gov.tw/ENG/LawClass/LawAll.aspx?pcode=C0000008 https://law.moj.gov.tw/ENG/LawClass/LawAll.aspx?pcode=C00000...
        petre 5y ago
        At least they've had another party in power since they've gained independence and there's momentum for change. There is hope.
        sofixa 5y ago
        Opium is important in the history of Singapore. The city was mainly developed for and by the opium trade, but also faced issues due to legal local consumption up to the 1940s. It's not what directly brought the draconian legislation in the 1970s, but it certainly contributed. Some history on opium and Singapore: https://biblioasia.nlb.gov.sg/vol-11/issue-3/oct-dec-2015/dragon https://biblioasia.nlb.gov.sg/vol-11/issue-3/oct-dec-2015/dr...
        EdwardDiego 5y ago
        Thanks, I'll have a read :)
        ayngg 5y ago
- AussieWog93 5y ago
  Fair enough. It's tone deaf and practically guaranteed to lead to zero change, but at least you - living comfortably in a country where you'll never have to deal with the real-world implications of harsh laws like this - get to feel good about being rude to someone on the internet.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
southerntofu 5y ago
> I was referring to the social norms around criticism of authority. There is a much greater expectation of tact and constructiveness compared to the West. I've never been to Asia myself, but knowing some Asian people and knowing a little about Asian history i think you are wrong. Like everywhere else, Asia is filled with revolutionaries who despise authority and revolt in any way they can. Just because some people respect authoritarian figures and their abuses of power doesn't mean everybody has to show "respect". I personally don't have any respect for most governments around this planet (including France/USA), because these governments don't have any respect for human lives and freedom. I live in a country where it's illegal to criticize the police or insult the president. Some people live in a country where it's illegal to suggest the king may be wrong. People like you are just enforcing that kind of power dynamic which some of us are interested to dismantle in flames. (Also worth noting: Asia is a BIG continent and you're making a huge generalization about billions of people... which i don't think holds at all)