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I stopped using python long ago, out of the frustration with the breakage caused in the ecosystem first due to the 2/3 transition, and then by splitting again t
by midrus 5y ago
I stopped using python long ago, out of the frustration with the breakage caused in the ecosystem first due to the 2/3 transition, and then by splitting again the ecosystem with all the async stuff they introduced, when having instead gone the way of gevent would have ended up in something like this.
The company I was at the time tried really hard to move to python 3. It was a huge codebase with thousands of engineers. After more than a year of work they cancelled the project and said they'll never upgrade to python 3, and instead started writing smaller "microservices" around the core product just to calm engineers anxiety to use python3. Now Django is suffering kind of the same problem with all the async stuff being bolted on, adding a lot of gotchas and side effects and incompatibilities around every corner. It is a mess.
I left that company and I will never use python again.
I love how Ruby seems to care about the ecosystem, and both ruby and rails keep innovating and providing awesome full stack solutions.
- lpapez 5y agoWas it really Python's fault? Version 2 was deprecated for a decade basically, and any sensible company invested the time to migrate.
- midrus 5y agoI'm talking about many years ago (6 more or less). And this company has a HUGE codebase. It has its managements problems too, but the situation I'm talking about didn't make it any easier.
- rictic 5y agoYes. The 2->3 change was not engineered to make migration easy, and as a maintainer of a large and project that people have built on top of this is something that both current and potential users will judge you on. Not speaking from a place of scorn, I and my team have made this same mistake, we lost both users and momentum. Big learning experience.
- vbg 5y agoWhether or not a software project succeeds is substantially influenced by politics. When I read your post a strong anti python 3 feeling is conveyed. It may well be that it’s impossible to upgrade such a company/code base when the engineers have such a negative attitude. The barrier was perhaps not technical but about the attitude of the people. There were lots of python 2 developers who were rabidly anti python 3. Some of the most well known python developers were aggressively very publicly anti python 3. Imagine a python 3 upgrade project with that attitude prevailing. No chance of success. Today python 3 is more popular than ever before and is arguably the most popular language in the world after javascript. Lots of people love python 3.
- cute_boi 5y agoI think its kind of disingenuous to make such statements. If you see how google is still unable to move from python2 to python3 we will know its a technical problem [1]. And remember chromium is a project with huge number of employee paid with very high amount of renumeration. So the barrier is mostly technical. I think such attitude comes from frustration which gets complemented with time. I personally think python3, ruby etc. are way better than JS in many case but I think world is a bit unfair due to browser language monopoly here. 1. https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=942720 https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=942720
- aprdm 5y agoOr because the company doesn’t feel it’s a priority and prefers to use the resources you listed on something else.
- midrus 5y agoYou seem to have misunderstood everything. Engineers where the ones pushing for it, that's why they ended up building surrounding services in python3. Transitioning big, heavily used, daily changed by thousands of engineers codebases is not easy. Do not make it look like just people is incompetent. It is a big financial, management and engineering effort. Maybe you're not understanding the scale of these things.