7 ms·

It's a bizarre world. How can a person get a death sentence from 50 grams of cocaine. What an idiot regime and or public moral you must have as a country.

AussieWog93 5y ago
That's a really offensive and unproductive take, especially considering Asian social norms.
- programmarchy 5y ago
  Wanton disregard for human life is an Asian “social norm”? I truly hope you are wrong.
  - AussieWog93 5y ago
    I was referring to the social norms around criticism of authority. There is a much greater expectation of tact and constructiveness compared to the West. The Singaporean government is doing the wrong thing by executing this man, but GP's flippant remarks were not the way to express this.
    - SturgeonsLaw 5y ago
      Heaven forbid we hurt the government's feelings while they murder someone for carrying a small amount of powder
      - ayngg 5y ago
        It is pretty easy to criticize social policy like this in a vacuum but really the extremely hard stance regarding drug contraband in that region is at the very least understandable given the historical context.
        EdwardDiego 5y ago
        What's the historical context that leads to hanging drug smugglers?
        sofixa 5y ago
        The Opium wars.
        EdwardDiego 5y ago
        A law passed in 1973 and amended in 1977 was based on the British use of force in China in the 19th century to sell opium? Feels like a long bow, but go on, I'm listening. The sources I can find state: "Then Minister for Home Affairs and Education, Chua Sian Chin said (Sing., Parliamentary Debates, vol. 37, col. 34 (27 May 1977)) - unless drug trafficking and drug addiction [are] checked, they [will] threaten our national security and viability. To do this, both punitive and preventive measures must be taken. The [Misuse of Drugs] Act was thus amended to provide enhanced penalties for traffickers, including mandatory death penalty for drug trafficking and manufacturing”. So I'm wondering what was going in Singapore in the 70s.
        petre 5y ago
        Most likely hardlines in power. Much like early South Korea and Taiwan, who's people had fortunately broken out of this trap. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Action_Party https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Action_Party
        throw_away 5y ago
        In South Korea today, you can be imprisoned for five years just for having any drugs in your system (follicle test) no matter where ingested & South Korean citizens can be punished for consuming drugs abroad where they would otherwise be legal: https://medium.com/@alexjanmaat2/recreational-drugs-in-korea-601116a32bd7 https://medium.com/@alexjanmaat2/recreational-drugs-in-korea... In Taiwan today, manufacturing, selling, or transporting Cocaine is a mandatory life (or death) sentence: https://law.moj.gov.tw/ENG/LawClass/LawAll.aspx?pcode=C0000008 https://law.moj.gov.tw/ENG/LawClass/LawAll.aspx?pcode=C00000...
      - AussieWog93 5y ago
        Fair enough. It's tone deaf and practically guaranteed to lead to zero change, but at least you - living comfortably in a country where you'll never have to deal with the real-world implications of harsh laws like this - get to feel good about being rude to someone on the internet.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - southerntofu 5y ago
      > I was referring to the social norms around criticism of authority. There is a much greater expectation of tact and constructiveness compared to the West. I've never been to Asia myself, but knowing some Asian people and knowing a little about Asian history i think you are wrong. Like everywhere else, Asia is filled with revolutionaries who despise authority and revolt in any way they can. Just because some people respect authoritarian figures and their abuses of power doesn't mean everybody has to show "respect". I personally don't have any respect for most governments around this planet (including France/USA), because these governments don't have any respect for human lives and freedom. I live in a country where it's illegal to criticize the police or insult the president. Some people live in a country where it's illegal to suggest the king may be wrong. People like you are just enforcing that kind of power dynamic which some of us are interested to dismantle in flames. (Also worth noting: Asia is a BIG continent and you're making a huge generalization about billions of people... which i don't think holds at all)
- holoduke 5y ago
  Idiot regimes with stupid social norms then. Nothing offensive about that. Rather something you want to fight against.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
nec4b 5y ago
Not condoning an execution, but I do find it a lot more idiotic and morally wrong letting 10s of thousands of your citizens die every year from drug overdose.
- smitty1e 5y ago
  The concepts of liberty and security are in tension. One wishes harm on none, but externally forcing preferred choices on people veers authoritarian really, really quickly. Horses led to water can opt to die of dehydration, alas.
  - nec4b 5y ago
    Drugs like heroin take away all your liberty whether you want it or not. Once you become slave of drugs there are no options or preferences only ever increasing desire for more.
    - smitty1e 5y ago
      And yet, that (generally) true statement seems hardly a deterrent to production or use thereof.
      - nec4b 5y ago
        Therefore it is prudent of a society to prevent both: production and use.
        smitty1e 5y ago
        I don't disagree. What I'd like to see is a more consistent societal rule for deciding where the line on "the public interest" and liberty is drawn.
        nec4b 5y ago
        I agree.
mirekrusin 5y ago
Heroine, not cocaine. It was about 500 doses.
- 8eye 5y ago
  having met some people wrapped up in drugs, i can tell you that sometimes people who sell drugs are doing it to support a habit, i’ve met people who started out on prescription pain pills that they got prescribed from their doctor due to a surgery. the pills were then eventually stopped and they got desperate because for many it was the first time in their life that they felt happy, many were in extreme poverty or had mental illness before getting hooked to prescription drugs, they got locked up for something dumb or less offensive, the system put them on probation, where it made them toxic to employeers, so they turned to selling because they were already doomed as it was, the drug war just reinforces a separate class of people. i don’t agree with people using drugs like heroin but, ive met many people who actually said that oxytocin and oxycoden is way better than heroin, and that they prefer it. and i am almost certain that more people die from prescription opiates a year than heroin yet, whenever someone mentions it, the whole conversation disappears with hush money. the drug war really seems like a tax on the most vulnerable in which was fueled by big pharma and paid by the average worker (us). johnson and johnson got called out on it and got a tiny slap on the hand, and later on was trusted enough to make a vaccine. which i am pretty sure johnson and johnson also had a baby powder lawsuit over their baby powder giving newborns cancer, but the problem is, the accountability is only on the people who cannot afford to pay the bill, the real criminals work for these companies, own these companies, lobby for these companies and or pass laws for profit at the expense of a healthy society. it’s just weird, we lock up the poor but don’t punish the source. it’s legal patchwork, but i know some people on here probably work for someone like johnson and johnson and nobody wants to bite the hand that feeds them. the system here in the states needs to be fixed. it doesn’t have to be law based but it definitely has to have a better framework than what we have going on right now.
clavicat 5y ago
They look at the West with its respect for the human rights of drug dealers and notice that it seems to suffer from tens of thousands of drug overdoses every year as well as creating tens of millions of addicts inflicting crime and squalor on their communities. They notice that the streets of Singapore aren’t littered with needles like they are in San Francisco. They think you’re the moral idiot for tolerating this societal catastrophe in the name of human rights. Singapore’s leaders believe that their severity is a small price to pay for keeping at bay the vices of the outside world. What would you say to them to convince them that they’re wrong?
- mmarq 5y ago
  > What would you say to them to convince them that they’re wrong? That the West is not littered with needles, so their severity is a massive price to pay for a minuscule gain.
  - voakbasda 5y ago
    Been to a public park in a big city lately? I have some sad news for you…
    - mmarq 5y ago
      Rome, London, Berlin, Paris and Milan in the past 2 months. I haven’t seen a used needle in decades (I saw a needle only once when I was a child)
      - pvaldes 5y ago
        We really want to reduce this to a littering problem? After the NYTimes, about 159000 people were killed by drugs between 2015 and 2017 just in US. 591000 Americans had problems related with Heroine abuse in 2015, how many of this people are dead now, or will end dying under a bridge? Their predators will not stop just by asking nicely. I don't agree with the punishment, but something must be done and either you send a very clear message of non tolerance with traffic or you allow the drug lords to take all, infiltrate in the government and corrupt everything in a few years. The best solution would be to legalize, tax and regulate what could be regulated but in the meanwhile I don't have a lot of sympathy for this people. Better to save it for the real victims.

AussieWog93 5y ago

That's a really offensive and unproductive take, especially considering Asian social norms.

programmarchy 5y ago
Wanton disregard for human life is an Asian “social norm”? I truly hope you are wrong.
- AussieWog93 5y ago
  I was referring to the social norms around criticism of authority. There is a much greater expectation of tact and constructiveness compared to the West. The Singaporean government is doing the wrong thing by executing this man, but GP's flippant remarks were not the way to express this.
  - SturgeonsLaw 5y ago
    Heaven forbid we hurt the government's feelings while they murder someone for carrying a small amount of powder
    - ayngg 5y ago
      It is pretty easy to criticize social policy like this in a vacuum but really the extremely hard stance regarding drug contraband in that region is at the very least understandable given the historical context.
      - EdwardDiego 5y ago
        What's the historical context that leads to hanging drug smugglers?
        sofixa 5y ago
        The Opium wars.
        EdwardDiego 5y ago
        A law passed in 1973 and amended in 1977 was based on the British use of force in China in the 19th century to sell opium? Feels like a long bow, but go on, I'm listening. The sources I can find state: "Then Minister for Home Affairs and Education, Chua Sian Chin said (Sing., Parliamentary Debates, vol. 37, col. 34 (27 May 1977)) - unless drug trafficking and drug addiction [are] checked, they [will] threaten our national security and viability. To do this, both punitive and preventive measures must be taken. The [Misuse of Drugs] Act was thus amended to provide enhanced penalties for traffickers, including mandatory death penalty for drug trafficking and manufacturing”. So I'm wondering what was going in Singapore in the 70s.
        petre 5y ago
        Most likely hardlines in power. Much like early South Korea and Taiwan, who's people had fortunately broken out of this trap. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Action_Party https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Action_Party
        throw_away 5y ago
        In South Korea today, you can be imprisoned for five years just for having any drugs in your system (follicle test) no matter where ingested & South Korean citizens can be punished for consuming drugs abroad where they would otherwise be legal: https://medium.com/@alexjanmaat2/recreational-drugs-in-korea-601116a32bd7 https://medium.com/@alexjanmaat2/recreational-drugs-in-korea... In Taiwan today, manufacturing, selling, or transporting Cocaine is a mandatory life (or death) sentence: https://law.moj.gov.tw/ENG/LawClass/LawAll.aspx?pcode=C0000008 https://law.moj.gov.tw/ENG/LawClass/LawAll.aspx?pcode=C00000...
    - AussieWog93 5y ago
      Fair enough. It's tone deaf and practically guaranteed to lead to zero change, but at least you - living comfortably in a country where you'll never have to deal with the real-world implications of harsh laws like this - get to feel good about being rude to someone on the internet.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - southerntofu 5y ago
    > I was referring to the social norms around criticism of authority. There is a much greater expectation of tact and constructiveness compared to the West. I've never been to Asia myself, but knowing some Asian people and knowing a little about Asian history i think you are wrong. Like everywhere else, Asia is filled with revolutionaries who despise authority and revolt in any way they can. Just because some people respect authoritarian figures and their abuses of power doesn't mean everybody has to show "respect". I personally don't have any respect for most governments around this planet (including France/USA), because these governments don't have any respect for human lives and freedom. I live in a country where it's illegal to criticize the police or insult the president. Some people live in a country where it's illegal to suggest the king may be wrong. People like you are just enforcing that kind of power dynamic which some of us are interested to dismantle in flames. (Also worth noting: Asia is a BIG continent and you're making a huge generalization about billions of people... which i don't think holds at all)
holoduke 5y ago
Idiot regimes with stupid social norms then. Nothing offensive about that. Rather something you want to fight against.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

nec4b 5y ago

Not condoning an execution, but I do find it a lot more idiotic and morally wrong letting 10s of thousands of your citizens die every year from drug overdose.

smitty1e 5y ago
The concepts of liberty and security are in tension. One wishes harm on none, but externally forcing preferred choices on people veers authoritarian really, really quickly. Horses led to water can opt to die of dehydration, alas.
- nec4b 5y ago
  Drugs like heroin take away all your liberty whether you want it or not. Once you become slave of drugs there are no options or preferences only ever increasing desire for more.
  - smitty1e 5y ago
    And yet, that (generally) true statement seems hardly a deterrent to production or use thereof.
    - nec4b 5y ago
      Therefore it is prudent of a society to prevent both: production and use.
      - smitty1e 5y ago
        I don't disagree. What I'd like to see is a more consistent societal rule for deciding where the line on "the public interest" and liberty is drawn.
        nec4b 5y ago
        I agree.

mirekrusin 5y ago

Heroine, not cocaine. It was about 500 doses.

8eye 5y ago
having met some people wrapped up in drugs, i can tell you that sometimes people who sell drugs are doing it to support a habit, i’ve met people who started out on prescription pain pills that they got prescribed from their doctor due to a surgery. the pills were then eventually stopped and they got desperate because for many it was the first time in their life that they felt happy, many were in extreme poverty or had mental illness before getting hooked to prescription drugs, they got locked up for something dumb or less offensive, the system put them on probation, where it made them toxic to employeers, so they turned to selling because they were already doomed as it was, the drug war just reinforces a separate class of people. i don’t agree with people using drugs like heroin but, ive met many people who actually said that oxytocin and oxycoden is way better than heroin, and that they prefer it. and i am almost certain that more people die from prescription opiates a year than heroin yet, whenever someone mentions it, the whole conversation disappears with hush money. the drug war really seems like a tax on the most vulnerable in which was fueled by big pharma and paid by the average worker (us). johnson and johnson got called out on it and got a tiny slap on the hand, and later on was trusted enough to make a vaccine. which i am pretty sure johnson and johnson also had a baby powder lawsuit over their baby powder giving newborns cancer, but the problem is, the accountability is only on the people who cannot afford to pay the bill, the real criminals work for these companies, own these companies, lobby for these companies and or pass laws for profit at the expense of a healthy society. it’s just weird, we lock up the poor but don’t punish the source. it’s legal patchwork, but i know some people on here probably work for someone like johnson and johnson and nobody wants to bite the hand that feeds them. the system here in the states needs to be fixed. it doesn’t have to be law based but it definitely has to have a better framework than what we have going on right now.

clavicat 5y ago

They look at the West with its respect for the human rights of drug dealers and notice that it seems to suffer from tens of thousands of drug overdoses every year as well as creating tens of millions of addicts inflicting crime and squalor on their communities. They notice that the streets of Singapore aren’t littered with needles like they are in San Francisco. They think you’re the moral idiot for tolerating this societal catastrophe in the name of human rights. Singapore’s leaders believe that their severity is a small price to pay for keeping at bay the vices of the outside world. What would you say to them to convince them that they’re wrong?

mmarq 5y ago
> What would you say to them to convince them that they’re wrong? That the West is not littered with needles, so their severity is a massive price to pay for a minuscule gain.
- voakbasda 5y ago
  Been to a public park in a big city lately? I have some sad news for you…
  - mmarq 5y ago
    Rome, London, Berlin, Paris and Milan in the past 2 months. I haven’t seen a used needle in decades (I saw a needle only once when I was a child)
    - pvaldes 5y ago
      We really want to reduce this to a littering problem? After the NYTimes, about 159000 people were killed by drugs between 2015 and 2017 just in US. 591000 Americans had problems related with Heroine abuse in 2015, how many of this people are dead now, or will end dying under a bridge? Their predators will not stop just by asking nicely. I don't agree with the punishment, but something must be done and either you send a very clear message of non tolerance with traffic or you allow the drug lords to take all, infiltrate in the government and corrupt everything in a few years. The best solution would be to legalize, tax and regulate what could be regulated but in the meanwhile I don't have a lot of sympathy for this people. Better to save it for the real victims.