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I think there is a difference between "figure it out yourself" and asking questions of the student. In any case, this talk claims that studies show giving the

I think there is a difference between "figure it out yourself" and asking questions of the student. In any case, this talk claims that studies show giving the answer is the best way to teach (don't shoot the messenger) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1ib43q3uXQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1ib43q3uXQ

Jtsummers 5y ago
That's a good talk, and people should watch it. But as I recall (it has been a bit since I watched it, probably 6 months) she doesn't argue that we should only give answers to students, but that we should give more answers to students than many (especially self-taught programmers) might think necessary (or desirable). The research basically showed that rote learning (the thing so strongly objected to here on HN in many education discussions) is actually effective. But that doesn't contradict the idea that self-guided exploration is bad (paired with an instructor answering questions, even questions with questions), it just shouldn't be where we start or the sole way we teach. In particular, a common objection to rote teaching programming is often along the lines of, "I taught myself assembly on a Commodore 64, anyone can do it [and I'll imply that it's the best way to learn]." Which can work, and can work for many students. But it's not effective for every student, and creates an artificial barrier (for the majority of students who will learn better, faster, or even at all with a more traditional presentation of the material).
- hdctambien 5y ago
  Excellent points. I made it a point that "if it is on an assessment, then they will have seen it in class" No tricks, no novel algorithms. Just show me that you learned the things that I tried to teach you. If a lab asks you to write a for loop that prints all the strings in an array, then I've taught the syntax for strings, printing,accessing elements from arrays, getting the length of an array, writing a for loop, etc... There have been hands on activities and/or funsheets for each of those ideas that include fill-in the blank questions where they get the framework of for loops with arrays. And they get handouts with the syntax / code structures / algorithms. And they get those worksheets/handouts/etc to reference while working on the lab. In a classroom environment, it's important to teach and build the foundation to solve problems. But then it's important to make the student do the work to build the connections so they actually learn something. Even if the something they learn is where they can look to find the answer to a question like "does an array start at 0 or 1?"
Zababa 5y ago
> I think there is a difference between "figure it out yourself" and asking questions of the student. That's very true, I lost some of the nuance there.

Jtsummers 5y ago

That's a good talk, and people should watch it. But as I recall (it has been a bit since I watched it, probably 6 months) she doesn't argue that we should only give answers to students, but that we should give more answers to students than many (especially self-taught programmers) might think necessary (or desirable). The research basically showed that rote learning (the thing so strongly objected to here on HN in many education discussions) is actually effective. But that doesn't contradict the idea that self-guided exploration is bad (paired with an instructor answering questions, even questions with questions), it just shouldn't be where we start or the sole way we teach. In particular, a common objection to rote teaching programming is often along the lines of, "I taught myself assembly on a Commodore 64, anyone can do it [and I'll imply that it's the best way to learn]." Which can work, and can work for many students. But it's not effective for every student, and creates an artificial barrier (for the majority of students who will learn better, faster, or even at all with a more traditional presentation of the material).

hdctambien 5y ago
Excellent points. I made it a point that "if it is on an assessment, then they will have seen it in class" No tricks, no novel algorithms. Just show me that you learned the things that I tried to teach you. If a lab asks you to write a for loop that prints all the strings in an array, then I've taught the syntax for strings, printing,accessing elements from arrays, getting the length of an array, writing a for loop, etc... There have been hands on activities and/or funsheets for each of those ideas that include fill-in the blank questions where they get the framework of for loops with arrays. And they get handouts with the syntax / code structures / algorithms. And they get those worksheets/handouts/etc to reference while working on the lab. In a classroom environment, it's important to teach and build the foundation to solve problems. But then it's important to make the student do the work to build the connections so they actually learn something. Even if the something they learn is where they can look to find the answer to a question like "does an array start at 0 or 1?"

Zababa 5y ago

> I think there is a difference between "figure it out yourself" and asking questions of the student. That's very true, I lost some of the nuance there.