4 ms·

Say what you will about MS's blunders, but I've always found their developer support and outreach to be top notch. Although they've yet to offer me a free phon

by steverb 15y ago

Say what you will about MS's blunders, but I've always found their developer support and outreach to be top notch. Although they've yet to offer me a free phone.

rbanffy 15y ago
I'll consider developing for it as soon as the dev tools run on Linux. I really don't want to run Windows. edit: burn, karma, burn
- nvictor 15y ago
  umm, i guess there is a reason it's called Windows Phone.
  - rbanffy 15y ago
    But guess what, they are trying to convert non-Windows developers. Palm allowed me to develop on whatever I wanted. And they sent me a phone upon request (they were never sold in Brazil). So does Google. And every dumbphone out there that supports J2ME. The only company that also wants to restrict what I use is Apple. And Apple throws the equivalent of Visual Studio in with every Mac (all you have to do is download it). I don't think it's out of malice they don't support other platforms. I have a couple friends who work at Microsoft and they seem to really believe that everyone who develops software has a Windows machine and Visual Studio. And, if you are serious about developing software, an MSDN subscription. And this just shows how amazing Microsoft's developer support and outreach really is. As long as you give them money, they support you. If you don't run Windows, they don't really care about you. No, thanks. My software, my rules. And, besides that, it's not like WP7 is gaining much support from manufacturers, or market share.
    - steverb 15y ago
      You can download Visual Studio Express for free as well.
      - rbanffy 15y ago
        Only if I have a Windows license, which I don't.
    - mahyarm 15y ago
      If you have a computer that is good enough to develop software on, you can figure out a way. Windows will run on almost any box that a Linux or Mac box runs on. Microsoft rightly believes that everyone who has a machine to develop software can figure out how to get a machine that runs Windows and Visual studio. If your too poor to buy the software you'll pirate it, and they can't squeeze blood from a stone anyway.
    - runjake 15y ago
      But guess what, they are trying to convert non-Windows developers. Fortunately, the mass majority of programmers in the world program in and/or on Windows. When MS is inviting programmers on their WP7 platform, you can safely assume they don't mean you. The Apple/Microsoft development scenario is equal. XCode is free, Visual Studio Express is free. You don't really need an MSDN subscription at all. And this just shows how amazing Microsoft's developer support and outreach really is. As long as you give them money, they support you. And this is why MS releases great dev tools, resources, documents, blogs, etc for free? They're offering a 2 day intensive WP7 programming e-course next week. Cost? Free. If you don't run Windows, they don't really care about you. Of course not. Does Apple care about you if you aren't using a Mac or an iPad? No. Does the Ubuntu team care about you if you're not using Ubuntu? Of course not. it's not like WP7 is gaining much support from manufacturers, or market share. Aside from Acer, Dell, Nokia, HTC, Samsung, Huwei, etc? You're right about market share, but they've been at it less than a year with an OS with a rather mediocre feature set. Let's see how things are another year from now with Mango and beyond. Android took a while to kick in, too. I have to ask again. You go off and troll every. single. Microsoft thread, but you claim to shun and abhor them. So why are you here trolling up discussions?
- mahmud 15y ago
  Why is this guy being downvoted? Mobile development tools don't need to be tied to a desktop OS. Microsoft tauts Mono as a portable alternative. Let them release a WP7 SDK that works on Mono. The Java SDK is much richer & much more sophisticated, yet it has the same experience everywhere. Really, only differences between writing Android apps with Eclipse on Win32 vs Linux vs Mac are the window decorations. Heck, even Postgres has portable tools. The GUI installer & PgAdminIII look exact everywhere.
  - runjake 15y ago
    Why is this guy being downvoted? Probably because he trolls Microsoft story submissions all the time.
  - barista 15y ago
    Agree dev tools don't have to be tied to any OS and come to think about it, the fledgling Windows Phone OS will benefit if there are more people adopting the dev platform if it runs on Linux BUT you have to draw a line somewhere. realize that this is a new platform and they are trying to prioritize resources. What do you think will give Microsoft more bang for the buck? Supporting a platform that is will likely land them a dev or two or making their core platform kick-ass? I think we all know what the answer is.
- sjs 15y ago
  Your stance is a kind of funny. When people complain about certain web dev tasks being difficult on Windows we say, "Yeesh, just run Linux already! You can even use a VM." And if you ask me that's precisely the response MS should give to requests such as yours. I mean, would you really expect them to port their SDK over so that a handful of Linux devs will consider trying it out? Doesn't seem like there would be a big payoff. I bet a majority of devs who use Linux wouldn't even consider it. After making a WP7 app at my day job I sure wouldn't.
  - rbanffy 15y ago
    If it's fun to develop for, I go for it. I have given up Java before writing things for Android and I can tell you it's a nice environment to play. Palm was a joy to write for. Why did you think I was a Palm developer? Because it's fun, not because I dreamed of retiring after selling a million copies of something. If I wanted a huge market, I'd cover Android an Apple. There are developers who'll follow the money, wherever it is. Some very good ones won't. Or, like I said elsewhere, Microsoft has the best developers money can buy. Platforms like WebOS have the best ones money can't buy. Oh... And I'd be perfectly fine with a VM image with Windows and the WP7 dev tools. I just don't want to boot into Windows or buy a license so that I can make their product more attractive.
    - sjs 15y ago
      > I just don't want to [...] buy a license [...] Would you pay the $100/year AppHub fee to publish apps for WP7 if you ended up liking it? This sort of argument just reminds of all those who whine about having to buy a Mac to do iOS development but in reality they wouldn't be doing iOS dev anyways, they just like to loudly cite all the reasons that they're not doing it for some reason.
      - rbanffy 15y ago
        If I saw a WP7 market share uptake, probably yes.
BrandonWatson 15y ago
I am responsible for dev experience on Windows Phone. We have phones available for developers. All developers. We optimize for devs building apps. If you are building apps for Windows Phone, shoot me an email and we'll get you connected to one of our awesome mobile champs. I can be reached at ThePhone [at] Microsoft
- steverb 15y ago
  No sour grapes. :-) I have been offered loaner equipment on several occasions.

by steverb 15y ago

Say what you will about MS's blunders, but I've always found their developer support and outreach to be top notch. Although they've yet to offer me a free phone.

rbanffy 15y ago

I'll consider developing for it as soon as the dev tools run on Linux. I really don't want to run Windows. edit: burn, karma, burn

nvictor 15y ago
umm, i guess there is a reason it's called Windows Phone.
- rbanffy 15y ago
  But guess what, they are trying to convert non-Windows developers. Palm allowed me to develop on whatever I wanted. And they sent me a phone upon request (they were never sold in Brazil). So does Google. And every dumbphone out there that supports J2ME. The only company that also wants to restrict what I use is Apple. And Apple throws the equivalent of Visual Studio in with every Mac (all you have to do is download it). I don't think it's out of malice they don't support other platforms. I have a couple friends who work at Microsoft and they seem to really believe that everyone who develops software has a Windows machine and Visual Studio. And, if you are serious about developing software, an MSDN subscription. And this just shows how amazing Microsoft's developer support and outreach really is. As long as you give them money, they support you. If you don't run Windows, they don't really care about you. No, thanks. My software, my rules. And, besides that, it's not like WP7 is gaining much support from manufacturers, or market share.
  - steverb 15y ago
    You can download Visual Studio Express for free as well.
    - rbanffy 15y ago
      Only if I have a Windows license, which I don't.
  - mahyarm 15y ago
    If you have a computer that is good enough to develop software on, you can figure out a way. Windows will run on almost any box that a Linux or Mac box runs on. Microsoft rightly believes that everyone who has a machine to develop software can figure out how to get a machine that runs Windows and Visual studio. If your too poor to buy the software you'll pirate it, and they can't squeeze blood from a stone anyway.
  - runjake 15y ago
    But guess what, they are trying to convert non-Windows developers. Fortunately, the mass majority of programmers in the world program in and/or on Windows. When MS is inviting programmers on their WP7 platform, you can safely assume they don't mean you. The Apple/Microsoft development scenario is equal. XCode is free, Visual Studio Express is free. You don't really need an MSDN subscription at all. And this just shows how amazing Microsoft's developer support and outreach really is. As long as you give them money, they support you. And this is why MS releases great dev tools, resources, documents, blogs, etc for free? They're offering a 2 day intensive WP7 programming e-course next week. Cost? Free. If you don't run Windows, they don't really care about you. Of course not. Does Apple care about you if you aren't using a Mac or an iPad? No. Does the Ubuntu team care about you if you're not using Ubuntu? Of course not. it's not like WP7 is gaining much support from manufacturers, or market share. Aside from Acer, Dell, Nokia, HTC, Samsung, Huwei, etc? You're right about market share, but they've been at it less than a year with an OS with a rather mediocre feature set. Let's see how things are another year from now with Mango and beyond. Android took a while to kick in, too. I have to ask again. You go off and troll every. single. Microsoft thread, but you claim to shun and abhor them. So why are you here trolling up discussions?
mahmud 15y ago
Why is this guy being downvoted? Mobile development tools don't need to be tied to a desktop OS. Microsoft tauts Mono as a portable alternative. Let them release a WP7 SDK that works on Mono. The Java SDK is much richer & much more sophisticated, yet it has the same experience everywhere. Really, only differences between writing Android apps with Eclipse on Win32 vs Linux vs Mac are the window decorations. Heck, even Postgres has portable tools. The GUI installer & PgAdminIII look exact everywhere.
- runjake 15y ago
  Why is this guy being downvoted? Probably because he trolls Microsoft story submissions all the time.
- barista 15y ago
  Agree dev tools don't have to be tied to any OS and come to think about it, the fledgling Windows Phone OS will benefit if there are more people adopting the dev platform if it runs on Linux BUT you have to draw a line somewhere. realize that this is a new platform and they are trying to prioritize resources. What do you think will give Microsoft more bang for the buck? Supporting a platform that is will likely land them a dev or two or making their core platform kick-ass? I think we all know what the answer is.
sjs 15y ago
Your stance is a kind of funny. When people complain about certain web dev tasks being difficult on Windows we say, "Yeesh, just run Linux already! You can even use a VM." And if you ask me that's precisely the response MS should give to requests such as yours. I mean, would you really expect them to port their SDK over so that a handful of Linux devs will consider trying it out? Doesn't seem like there would be a big payoff. I bet a majority of devs who use Linux wouldn't even consider it. After making a WP7 app at my day job I sure wouldn't.
- rbanffy 15y ago
  If it's fun to develop for, I go for it. I have given up Java before writing things for Android and I can tell you it's a nice environment to play. Palm was a joy to write for. Why did you think I was a Palm developer? Because it's fun, not because I dreamed of retiring after selling a million copies of something. If I wanted a huge market, I'd cover Android an Apple. There are developers who'll follow the money, wherever it is. Some very good ones won't. Or, like I said elsewhere, Microsoft has the best developers money can buy. Platforms like WebOS have the best ones money can't buy. Oh... And I'd be perfectly fine with a VM image with Windows and the WP7 dev tools. I just don't want to boot into Windows or buy a license so that I can make their product more attractive.
  - sjs 15y ago
    > I just don't want to [...] buy a license [...] Would you pay the $100/year AppHub fee to publish apps for WP7 if you ended up liking it? This sort of argument just reminds of all those who whine about having to buy a Mac to do iOS development but in reality they wouldn't be doing iOS dev anyways, they just like to loudly cite all the reasons that they're not doing it for some reason.
    - rbanffy 15y ago
      If I saw a WP7 market share uptake, probably yes.

BrandonWatson 15y ago

I am responsible for dev experience on Windows Phone. We have phones available for developers. All developers. We optimize for devs building apps. If you are building apps for Windows Phone, shoot me an email and we'll get you connected to one of our awesome mobile champs. I can be reached at ThePhone [at] Microsoft

steverb 15y ago
No sour grapes. :-) I have been offered loaner equipment on several occasions.