4 ms·

Windows 11's start bar makes accessing settings and files easy, and gets out of the damn way of my work rather than pushing information poor animated tiles, sho

Windows 11's start bar makes accessing settings and files easy, and gets out of the damn way of my work rather than pushing information poor animated tiles, shovelware and ads at my face while hogging my entire screen. Finally, it's just like Windows 7. I don't use a Surface tablet, but I'm told pen input is a major use case. Maybe pen tools should be made modal rather than uniform even across devices without pen input?

rewgs 5y ago
Nah, the 11 Start Menu is super lacking. I miss being able to make and name app groups in Windows 10. Plus, it's just lacking in basic and obvious "features." I wish I could default to seeing all apps. I wish that the current default view's bottom third wasn't blocked by a suggestion that can't be hidden. Ditto with the Taskbar changes. I'd prefer to have only the Windows button left, but app icons centered. Seems obvious, why isn't it there? Additionally, why remote the ability to have small icons or place the taskbar elsewhere but the button? IMO they regressed and simplified too far and need to walk it back a bit. The new Windows 11 coat of paint is okay.
- DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
  The reason why is kinda silly: so a couple of years ago the Windows org made yet another locked-down, "mobile-first" SKU of desktop Windows designed for larger phablets and ARM devices (which never materialized - though imagine if the Microsoft Surface Duo[1] was expanded to a much wider range of Microsoft and partner-branded devices) - and this included a somewhat simplified shell user-experience - and it ended up as "Windows 10X" and was promoed at the start of this year (look familiar? https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10x https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10x ). Then something happened in the late-spring 2021 when the shell team all suddenly disappeared - around the same time as Bill Gates' divorce announcement (coincidence? I think not!) and the Windows org's leadership decided to make the bold move of copying-and-pasting Windows 10X#'s cut-down shell, intended for mobile devices, into the full-fat enterprise and desktop SKUs of Windows 11 and call it a day. My sources and former work-colleague friends at MS tell me that the current shell team (they should call it a fossil team at this point considering it seems there's nothing left of it) is very, very aware of the huge backlash over the removal of essential features like repositioning the taskbar and having individual taskbar buttons, but don't expect a quick-fix - I get the feeling some hotshot PMs will try to use this occasion to pitch their own unique new (and unproven...) concepts on how the shell should work, instead of doing the big fat `git reset HEAD` back to a late-2019 commit that they should be doing... le sigh... [1] (which runs Android... which is further evidence something went really wrong with the wave-function collapse around 2016)
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    Whatever is happening there, is quite clear that the COM / C++ folks are driving it all again. They are so deep into it, that any complaints from .NET devs ends up being that "it isn't so hard to write a bit of C++ with the clunky C++/WinRT, or [ComImport]", naturally the advice people like to get. Ah and the fact that they push Win32 with bare bones C++, where each developer has to create their own MFC like frameworks, is yet another example how things went wrong.
  - my123 5y ago
    > Microsoft Surface Duo That's codenamed Andromeda. [1] And yes, was planned to be a Windows SKU before mobile Windows utterly exploded. [1] https://www.windowscentral.com/surface-duo-andromeda-windows-core-os https://www.windowscentral.com/surface-duo-andromeda-windows...
DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
> Windows 11's start bar makes accessing settings and files easy No, it does not. At least, not for me, it doesn't. Remember that programs are "files" too - and my Windows 10 desktop has a nicely personalized Start Menu with probably about 30 app tiles added to it (roughly 50% are the small size, the rest Large. I don't have any Live Tiles: these are all normal shell shortcuts that exist as basic tiles. I've also employed some tweaks to allow me to have tiles for non-program-shortcuts and document files to my start menu. I have the Start Menu double-wide as well, as I have a large (43-inch) main desktop display. I also have the All Programs menu always visible because I do actually use it a lot. I know I can simply pin more programs to my taskbar, and I can move the icons back to the left, but I simply cannot use collapsed taskbar buttons because their hit-target is tiiiiny (Fitt's Law is important, which is why it's insane that the Start button isn't in the bottom-left corner, crazy). I also run programs that generate a LOT of open windows - with ungrouped buttons (and thanks to my huge desktop monitor) I'm able to have instant 1-click access to every window - if I was using Windows 11 I'd have to click twice to switch between windows in a taskbar that is somehow both cramped (due to needing to pin more icons for non-open programs) and wasting space (as buttons won't expand to fill empty areas). At least I'm not one of the unfortunate souls that needs to have their taskbar on the side or top of their monitor (this includes people with disabilities who prefer to not have to glance down so-much) - there's a lot of pain amongst those users right now. Your uncritical praise just seems so-off when juxtaposed to all of the sincere negative feedback about Windows 11. Yes, people will always complain about change, but the fact people are complaining about the capability-reduced taskbar and start-menu and not the enforced rounded-corners on every window[1] is saying something. [1] I'm actually offended by the rounded-corners thing, I'll admit: because I thought that there was solid agreement and understanding between the OS and programs that the OS would not impose itself onto the client-area of a window: programs get a perfect rectangle and users should get to see all of that rectangle - with rounded corners (and without thick non-client window-borders to absorb the curves) it means users are being short-changed on their pixels. Serious question: what if a program displays critical status information in the corner pixels of a window? It just makes me feel uncomfortable.

rewgs 5y ago

Nah, the 11 Start Menu is super lacking. I miss being able to make and name app groups in Windows 10. Plus, it's just lacking in basic and obvious "features." I wish I could default to seeing all apps. I wish that the current default view's bottom third wasn't blocked by a suggestion that can't be hidden. Ditto with the Taskbar changes. I'd prefer to have only the Windows button left, but app icons centered. Seems obvious, why isn't it there? Additionally, why remote the ability to have small icons or place the taskbar elsewhere but the button? IMO they regressed and simplified too far and need to walk it back a bit. The new Windows 11 coat of paint is okay.

DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
The reason why is kinda silly: so a couple of years ago the Windows org made yet another locked-down, "mobile-first" SKU of desktop Windows designed for larger phablets and ARM devices (which never materialized - though imagine if the Microsoft Surface Duo[1] was expanded to a much wider range of Microsoft and partner-branded devices) - and this included a somewhat simplified shell user-experience - and it ended up as "Windows 10X" and was promoed at the start of this year (look familiar? https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10x https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10x ). Then something happened in the late-spring 2021 when the shell team all suddenly disappeared - around the same time as Bill Gates' divorce announcement (coincidence? I think not!) and the Windows org's leadership decided to make the bold move of copying-and-pasting Windows 10X#'s cut-down shell, intended for mobile devices, into the full-fat enterprise and desktop SKUs of Windows 11 and call it a day. My sources and former work-colleague friends at MS tell me that the current shell team (they should call it a fossil team at this point considering it seems there's nothing left of it) is very, very aware of the huge backlash over the removal of essential features like repositioning the taskbar and having individual taskbar buttons, but don't expect a quick-fix - I get the feeling some hotshot PMs will try to use this occasion to pitch their own unique new (and unproven...) concepts on how the shell should work, instead of doing the big fat `git reset HEAD` back to a late-2019 commit that they should be doing... le sigh... [1] (which runs Android... which is further evidence something went really wrong with the wave-function collapse around 2016)
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Whatever is happening there, is quite clear that the COM / C++ folks are driving it all again. They are so deep into it, that any complaints from .NET devs ends up being that "it isn't so hard to write a bit of C++ with the clunky C++/WinRT, or [ComImport]", naturally the advice people like to get. Ah and the fact that they push Win32 with bare bones C++, where each developer has to create their own MFC like frameworks, is yet another example how things went wrong.
- my123 5y ago
  > Microsoft Surface Duo That's codenamed Andromeda. [1] And yes, was planned to be a Windows SKU before mobile Windows utterly exploded. [1] https://www.windowscentral.com/surface-duo-andromeda-windows-core-os https://www.windowscentral.com/surface-duo-andromeda-windows...

DaiPlusPlus 5y ago

> Windows 11's start bar makes accessing settings and files easy No, it does not. At least, not for me, it doesn't. Remember that programs are "files" too - and my Windows 10 desktop has a nicely personalized Start Menu with probably about 30 app tiles added to it (roughly 50% are the small size, the rest Large. I don't have any Live Tiles: these are all normal shell shortcuts that exist as basic tiles. I've also employed some tweaks to allow me to have tiles for non-program-shortcuts and document files to my start menu. I have the Start Menu double-wide as well, as I have a large (43-inch) main desktop display. I also have the All Programs menu always visible because I do actually use it a lot. I know I can simply pin more programs to my taskbar, and I can move the icons back to the left, but I simply cannot use collapsed taskbar buttons because their hit-target is tiiiiny (Fitt's Law is important, which is why it's insane that the Start button isn't in the bottom-left corner, crazy). I also run programs that generate a LOT of open windows - with ungrouped buttons (and thanks to my huge desktop monitor) I'm able to have instant 1-click access to every window - if I was using Windows 11 I'd have to click twice to switch between windows in a taskbar that is somehow both cramped (due to needing to pin more icons for non-open programs) and wasting space (as buttons won't expand to fill empty areas). At least I'm not one of the unfortunate souls that needs to have their taskbar on the side or top of their monitor (this includes people with disabilities who prefer to not have to glance down so-much) - there's a lot of pain amongst those users right now. Your uncritical praise just seems so-off when juxtaposed to all of the sincere negative feedback about Windows 11. Yes, people will always complain about change, but the fact people are complaining about the capability-reduced taskbar and start-menu and not the enforced rounded-corners on every window[1] is saying something. [1] I'm actually offended by the rounded-corners thing, I'll admit: because I thought that there was solid agreement and understanding between the OS and programs that the OS would not impose itself onto the client-area of a window: programs get a perfect rectangle and users should get to see all of that rectangle - with rounded corners (and without thick non-client window-borders to absorb the curves) it means users are being short-changed on their pixels. Serious question: what if a program displays critical status information in the corner pixels of a window? It just makes me feel uncomfortable.