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One of my beefs with apple is a random WWDC video (that can only be viewed in Safari?) is the only "documentation" of something. With their policies about only

One of my beefs with apple is a random WWDC video (that can only be viewed in Safari?) is the only "documentation" of something. With their policies about only being able to develop for apple on Apple hardware, their walled gardens, extremely locked down APIs, horrible/missing documentation, Apple is very developer hostile.

pjmlp 5y ago
Apple is quite good for developers targeting their platforms, do not be confused with developer === UNIX/FOSS. I don't expect developers targeting Windows, mainframes, consoles, to do it from other platforms either.
- joe_guy 5y ago
  You're legally permitted to run a Windows VM on Apple hardware, but not vice versa. The idea of a CI/server for Apple software is a Mac mini... Not exactly production grade. Apples hardware/software lock in is disgusting. Apple has no concerns for backward compatiblility. Apple is developer hostile.
  - weikju 5y ago
    > The idea of a CI/server for Apple software is a Mac mini... Not exactly production grade. Apples hardware/software lock in is disgusting. while obviously not applicable to all circumstances, and no idea what state it's in, but they are addressing this with Xcode Cloud...
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    All of then irrelevant for developers targeting Apple ecosystem, and if one really does CI/CD there is Xcode cloud.
- ronsor 5y ago
  > Apple is quite good for developers targeting their platforms https://www.caseyliss.com/2020/11/10/on-apples-pisspoor-documentation https://www.caseyliss.com/2020/11/10/on-apples-pisspoor-docu... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24410652 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24410652 https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/21/22385859/apple-app-store-scams-fraud-review-enforcement-top-grossing-kosta-eleftheriou https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/21/22385859/apple-app-store-... https://v4.chriskrycho.com/2019/apple-your-developer-documentation-is-garbage.html https://v4.chriskrycho.com/2019/apple-your-developer-documen... > I don't expect developers targeting [. . .] consoles, to do it from other platforms either. Consoles are poor example since I don't know a single console that lets you compile your game on it. All console manufacturers provide a development environment that runs on Windows, Linux, macOS, or a combination of those.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    Most developer are quite alright with Apple Store, they were quite worse with 80% being paid to mobile operators, but now some vocal minority wants more. I was expecting that answer for consoles, and yes all their SDKs are Windows only, with VS plugins.

pjmlp 5y ago

Apple is quite good for developers targeting their platforms, do not be confused with developer === UNIX/FOSS. I don't expect developers targeting Windows, mainframes, consoles, to do it from other platforms either.

joe_guy 5y ago
You're legally permitted to run a Windows VM on Apple hardware, but not vice versa. The idea of a CI/server for Apple software is a Mac mini... Not exactly production grade. Apples hardware/software lock in is disgusting. Apple has no concerns for backward compatiblility. Apple is developer hostile.
- weikju 5y ago
  > The idea of a CI/server for Apple software is a Mac mini... Not exactly production grade. Apples hardware/software lock in is disgusting. while obviously not applicable to all circumstances, and no idea what state it's in, but they are addressing this with Xcode Cloud...
- pjmlp 5y ago
  All of then irrelevant for developers targeting Apple ecosystem, and if one really does CI/CD there is Xcode cloud.
ronsor 5y ago
> Apple is quite good for developers targeting their platforms https://www.caseyliss.com/2020/11/10/on-apples-pisspoor-documentation https://www.caseyliss.com/2020/11/10/on-apples-pisspoor-docu... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24410652 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24410652 https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/21/22385859/apple-app-store-scams-fraud-review-enforcement-top-grossing-kosta-eleftheriou https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/21/22385859/apple-app-store-... https://v4.chriskrycho.com/2019/apple-your-developer-documentation-is-garbage.html https://v4.chriskrycho.com/2019/apple-your-developer-documen... > I don't expect developers targeting [. . .] consoles, to do it from other platforms either. Consoles are poor example since I don't know a single console that lets you compile your game on it. All console manufacturers provide a development environment that runs on Windows, Linux, macOS, or a combination of those.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Most developer are quite alright with Apple Store, they were quite worse with 80% being paid to mobile operators, but now some vocal minority wants more. I was expecting that answer for consoles, and yes all their SDKs are Windows only, with VS plugins.