10 ms·

Why is it that MacOS feels more and more like Windows did 10 years ago? Slower, bloatier, buggier. In 2015, I used to go months between reboots on my MacBook Pr

Why is it that MacOS feels more and more like Windows did 10 years ago? Slower, bloatier, buggier. In 2015, I used to go months between reboots on my MacBook Pro. In 2021, I seem to have to reboot my M1 mini at least once a week.

npunt 5y ago
Likely ongoing teething issues with M1? It's a big lift to move an OS to an entirely new architecture, and haven't seen or heard of the same on Intel.
nikolay 5y ago
I agree. I also see real improvements in Windows nowadays; macOS offers only cosmetics.
- DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
  > I also see real improvements in Windows nowadays How is Windows 11's horribly dumbed-down taskbar and start menu a "real improvement"? They got rid of the old Windows 7 screen-clipping tool but the "new" version from Windows 10 still lacks ultra-basic things like text-annotations and arrow shapes... (but it's got a full-suite of pen-inking tools, which I'm sure everyone uses all the time).
  - CIADidHarryHolt 5y ago
    Windows 11's start bar makes accessing settings and files easy, and gets out of the damn way of my work rather than pushing information poor animated tiles, shovelware and ads at my face while hogging my entire screen. Finally, it's just like Windows 7. I don't use a Surface tablet, but I'm told pen input is a major use case. Maybe pen tools should be made modal rather than uniform even across devices without pen input?
    - rewgs 5y ago
      Nah, the 11 Start Menu is super lacking. I miss being able to make and name app groups in Windows 10. Plus, it's just lacking in basic and obvious "features." I wish I could default to seeing all apps. I wish that the current default view's bottom third wasn't blocked by a suggestion that can't be hidden. Ditto with the Taskbar changes. I'd prefer to have only the Windows button left, but app icons centered. Seems obvious, why isn't it there? Additionally, why remote the ability to have small icons or place the taskbar elsewhere but the button? IMO they regressed and simplified too far and need to walk it back a bit. The new Windows 11 coat of paint is okay.
      - DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
        The reason why is kinda silly: so a couple of years ago the Windows org made yet another locked-down, "mobile-first" SKU of desktop Windows designed for larger phablets and ARM devices (which never materialized - though imagine if the Microsoft Surface Duo[1] was expanded to a much wider range of Microsoft and partner-branded devices) - and this included a somewhat simplified shell user-experience - and it ended up as "Windows 10X" and was promoed at the start of this year (look familiar? https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10x https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10x ). Then something happened in the late-spring 2021 when the shell team all suddenly disappeared - around the same time as Bill Gates' divorce announcement (coincidence? I think not!) and the Windows org's leadership decided to make the bold move of copying-and-pasting Windows 10X#'s cut-down shell, intended for mobile devices, into the full-fat enterprise and desktop SKUs of Windows 11 and call it a day. My sources and former work-colleague friends at MS tell me that the current shell team (they should call it a fossil team at this point considering it seems there's nothing left of it) is very, very aware of the huge backlash over the removal of essential features like repositioning the taskbar and having individual taskbar buttons, but don't expect a quick-fix - I get the feeling some hotshot PMs will try to use this occasion to pitch their own unique new (and unproven...) concepts on how the shell should work, instead of doing the big fat `git reset HEAD` back to a late-2019 commit that they should be doing... le sigh... [1] (which runs Android... which is further evidence something went really wrong with the wave-function collapse around 2016)
- mafalda 5y ago
  MacOS major updates are far from only cosmetics. Apple does a bad job in sharing it with the broad public but every year they bring new features. Sometimes they are slower, an API addition one year, a deprecation in the next one and so on.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Spend some time watching WWDC sessions regarding network stack, security, userspace drivers, Metal tooling.
  - joe_guy 5y ago
    One of my beefs with apple is a random WWDC video (that can only be viewed in Safari?) is the only "documentation" of something. With their policies about only being able to develop for apple on Apple hardware, their walled gardens, extremely locked down APIs, horrible/missing documentation, Apple is very developer hostile.
    - pjmlp 5y ago
      Apple is quite good for developers targeting their platforms, do not be confused with developer === UNIX/FOSS. I don't expect developers targeting Windows, mainframes, consoles, to do it from other platforms either.
      - joe_guy 5y ago
        You're legally permitted to run a Windows VM on Apple hardware, but not vice versa. The idea of a CI/server for Apple software is a Mac mini... Not exactly production grade. Apples hardware/software lock in is disgusting. Apple has no concerns for backward compatiblility. Apple is developer hostile.
        weikju 5y ago
        > The idea of a CI/server for Apple software is a Mac mini... Not exactly production grade. Apples hardware/software lock in is disgusting. while obviously not applicable to all circumstances, and no idea what state it's in, but they are addressing this with Xcode Cloud...
        pjmlp 5y ago
        All of then irrelevant for developers targeting Apple ecosystem, and if one really does CI/CD there is Xcode cloud.
- GeekyBear 5y ago
  Hasn't Windows Update had issues that deleted user files for the last three years running? >Early during installation, the Data volume is unmounted, ensuring that its contents are protected from any ill-effects of failed installation. The System volume is mounted for writing and SIP disabled This sounds like a needed mitigation that Windows could stand to copy.
mulderc 5y ago
Curious, the only time I reboot my M1 Mac mini is for updates. Otherwise it had been rock solid for me.
- joemi 5y ago
  Same here. MacOS on my M1 Macbook Pro has been really great so far.
  - TacticalCoder 5y ago
    hmmm not like that here. MacBook Air M1: it's the "living room computer", the one to surf from the couch and I do really dig it but once in a while everything locks up. I don't know why. Sometimes it does unstucks itself while at other times I force it off (and when it's all blocked and I hold the button to turn it off, even that is kinda not very responsive). I doesn't happen often, once every few days. But it's not anywhere near "Debian Linux" stable (where six months of uptime for a desktop are a regular thing).
    - tedd4u 5y ago
      Had my M1 MBA since last Nov, use every day for hours. Only rebooted when system updates came out. I would get Apple on it. Might be hardware.
      - kataklasm 5y ago
        That's the same as saying 'buy a new one :)'. The bets of Apple fixing anything and not just telling you to replace your 13 month old laptop are slim at best.
        mulderc 5y ago
        Apple has always been great to me with fixing things as long as I took it in to an apple store. The few times they didn’t do it for free they did the repairs at what I would consider a reasonable price. If someone it having issues with their apple hardware that is the first place to start, assuming you have an apple store that you can get to.
coldtea 5y ago
>Why is it that MacOS feels more and more like Windows did 10 years ago? Slower, bloatier, buggier. In 2015, I used to go months between reboots on my MacBook Pro. In 2021, I seem to have to reboot my M1 mini at least once a week. Some bizarro software, perhaps some that had you bypass SIP? Otherwise, I never had to reboot my M1 since I bought it last year (except for minor updates and Monterey).
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
eyelidlessness 5y ago
I don’t feel this way at all, and haven’t since 10.11 (El Capitan). Not that I never need a reboot, just… it hasn’t varied at all for me between major versions since. My observation is that macOS since then has been considered mature by Apple and generally updated to suit other initiatives. Which is fine and should be welcomed here!

npunt 5y ago

Likely ongoing teething issues with M1? It's a big lift to move an OS to an entirely new architecture, and haven't seen or heard of the same on Intel.

nikolay 5y ago

I agree. I also see real improvements in Windows nowadays; macOS offers only cosmetics.

DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
> I also see real improvements in Windows nowadays How is Windows 11's horribly dumbed-down taskbar and start menu a "real improvement"? They got rid of the old Windows 7 screen-clipping tool but the "new" version from Windows 10 still lacks ultra-basic things like text-annotations and arrow shapes... (but it's got a full-suite of pen-inking tools, which I'm sure everyone uses all the time).
- CIADidHarryHolt 5y ago
  Windows 11's start bar makes accessing settings and files easy, and gets out of the damn way of my work rather than pushing information poor animated tiles, shovelware and ads at my face while hogging my entire screen. Finally, it's just like Windows 7. I don't use a Surface tablet, but I'm told pen input is a major use case. Maybe pen tools should be made modal rather than uniform even across devices without pen input?
  - rewgs 5y ago
    Nah, the 11 Start Menu is super lacking. I miss being able to make and name app groups in Windows 10. Plus, it's just lacking in basic and obvious "features." I wish I could default to seeing all apps. I wish that the current default view's bottom third wasn't blocked by a suggestion that can't be hidden. Ditto with the Taskbar changes. I'd prefer to have only the Windows button left, but app icons centered. Seems obvious, why isn't it there? Additionally, why remote the ability to have small icons or place the taskbar elsewhere but the button? IMO they regressed and simplified too far and need to walk it back a bit. The new Windows 11 coat of paint is okay.
    - DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
      The reason why is kinda silly: so a couple of years ago the Windows org made yet another locked-down, "mobile-first" SKU of desktop Windows designed for larger phablets and ARM devices (which never materialized - though imagine if the Microsoft Surface Duo[1] was expanded to a much wider range of Microsoft and partner-branded devices) - and this included a somewhat simplified shell user-experience - and it ended up as "Windows 10X" and was promoed at the start of this year (look familiar? https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10x https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10x ). Then something happened in the late-spring 2021 when the shell team all suddenly disappeared - around the same time as Bill Gates' divorce announcement (coincidence? I think not!) and the Windows org's leadership decided to make the bold move of copying-and-pasting Windows 10X#'s cut-down shell, intended for mobile devices, into the full-fat enterprise and desktop SKUs of Windows 11 and call it a day. My sources and former work-colleague friends at MS tell me that the current shell team (they should call it a fossil team at this point considering it seems there's nothing left of it) is very, very aware of the huge backlash over the removal of essential features like repositioning the taskbar and having individual taskbar buttons, but don't expect a quick-fix - I get the feeling some hotshot PMs will try to use this occasion to pitch their own unique new (and unproven...) concepts on how the shell should work, instead of doing the big fat `git reset HEAD` back to a late-2019 commit that they should be doing... le sigh... [1] (which runs Android... which is further evidence something went really wrong with the wave-function collapse around 2016)
mafalda 5y ago
MacOS major updates are far from only cosmetics. Apple does a bad job in sharing it with the broad public but every year they bring new features. Sometimes they are slower, an API addition one year, a deprecation in the next one and so on.
pjmlp 5y ago
Spend some time watching WWDC sessions regarding network stack, security, userspace drivers, Metal tooling.
- joe_guy 5y ago
  One of my beefs with apple is a random WWDC video (that can only be viewed in Safari?) is the only "documentation" of something. With their policies about only being able to develop for apple on Apple hardware, their walled gardens, extremely locked down APIs, horrible/missing documentation, Apple is very developer hostile.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    Apple is quite good for developers targeting their platforms, do not be confused with developer === UNIX/FOSS. I don't expect developers targeting Windows, mainframes, consoles, to do it from other platforms either.
    - joe_guy 5y ago
      You're legally permitted to run a Windows VM on Apple hardware, but not vice versa. The idea of a CI/server for Apple software is a Mac mini... Not exactly production grade. Apples hardware/software lock in is disgusting. Apple has no concerns for backward compatiblility. Apple is developer hostile.
      - weikju 5y ago
        > The idea of a CI/server for Apple software is a Mac mini... Not exactly production grade. Apples hardware/software lock in is disgusting. while obviously not applicable to all circumstances, and no idea what state it's in, but they are addressing this with Xcode Cloud...
      - pjmlp 5y ago
        All of then irrelevant for developers targeting Apple ecosystem, and if one really does CI/CD there is Xcode cloud.
GeekyBear 5y ago
Hasn't Windows Update had issues that deleted user files for the last three years running? >Early during installation, the Data volume is unmounted, ensuring that its contents are protected from any ill-effects of failed installation. The System volume is mounted for writing and SIP disabled This sounds like a needed mitigation that Windows could stand to copy.

mulderc 5y ago

Curious, the only time I reboot my M1 Mac mini is for updates. Otherwise it had been rock solid for me.

joemi 5y ago
Same here. MacOS on my M1 Macbook Pro has been really great so far.
- TacticalCoder 5y ago
  hmmm not like that here. MacBook Air M1: it's the "living room computer", the one to surf from the couch and I do really dig it but once in a while everything locks up. I don't know why. Sometimes it does unstucks itself while at other times I force it off (and when it's all blocked and I hold the button to turn it off, even that is kinda not very responsive). I doesn't happen often, once every few days. But it's not anywhere near "Debian Linux" stable (where six months of uptime for a desktop are a regular thing).
  - tedd4u 5y ago
    Had my M1 MBA since last Nov, use every day for hours. Only rebooted when system updates came out. I would get Apple on it. Might be hardware.
    - kataklasm 5y ago
      That's the same as saying 'buy a new one :)'. The bets of Apple fixing anything and not just telling you to replace your 13 month old laptop are slim at best.
      - mulderc 5y ago
        Apple has always been great to me with fixing things as long as I took it in to an apple store. The few times they didn’t do it for free they did the repairs at what I would consider a reasonable price. If someone it having issues with their apple hardware that is the first place to start, assuming you have an apple store that you can get to.

coldtea 5y ago

>Why is it that MacOS feels more and more like Windows did 10 years ago? Slower, bloatier, buggier. In 2015, I used to go months between reboots on my MacBook Pro. In 2021, I seem to have to reboot my M1 mini at least once a week. Some bizarro software, perhaps some that had you bypass SIP? Otherwise, I never had to reboot my M1 since I bought it last year (except for minor updates and Monterey).

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

eyelidlessness 5y ago

I don’t feel this way at all, and haven’t since 10.11 (El Capitan). Not that I never need a reboot, just… it hasn’t varied at all for me between major versions since. My observation is that macOS since then has been considered mature by Apple and generally updated to suit other initiatives. Which is fine and should be welcomed here!