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> ... the governments of the world couldn't have imagined a better excuse to violate privacy and personal freedom with COVID-19 On a daily basis in the EU you

> ... the governments of the world couldn't have imagined a better excuse to violate privacy and personal freedom with COVID-19 On a daily basis in the EU you do really feel how politicians have used Covid-19 to impose a crazy amount of surveillance. If moreover you travel just a bit, the amount of bullshit you have to fill / comply-with and whatnots is just insane. You drive from, say, France to Belgium: you are supposed to fill online "locator" forms saying where you go from, where you go to, what's the license plate(s) of the car(s) you're using, you have to give the names/address of any intermediate address you're saying at. You can decide to not fill these, but you're taking the risk of serious fines, especially if you happen to contaminate someone. Non-tecchie people are noticing the increased surveillance too: my wife and kid are flying tomorrow and my wife was telling me earlier today: "The amount of new information you have to give to confirm you plane ticket is becoming crazy". People do feel they're being watched. Not mentioning the "vaccination pass" you now need to show at many places to be able to enter (as, for example, the restaurants). I don't personally think the pandemic warranted such a totalitarian crackdown on citizens. We did obey and suffer the lockdowns. We did get the vaccine. But it certainly doesn't look like we're getting our liberties back. It is beyond insanity.

kfprt 5y ago
Unfortunately liberties are almost never given back without violence. It is a shame on the west for accepting this abject surrender of individual liberty with docility.
- Jensson 5y ago
  At least EU lets people vote away all these oppressive elements locally, unlike a certain other union. It is a lot easier to vote back your freedom in smaller countries.
pasabagi 5y ago
When you have to give information, it doesn't really mean you're subject to a great deal of surveillance. You can tell you're subject to surveillance by the fact everything's really convenient and they already have all your info. I guess my feeling is the amount of information collected about me by governments since the pandemic started is probably measured in bytes, whereas the amount of information that's been stored and shared by one or another private company is in gigabytes. I'm got a scam text the other day about a DHL package that was arriving, because some asshole has been selling my purchase history somewhere along the line. Every time you have any kind of commercial interaction with anybody you enter into this really promiscuous wash of bad security, over-eager logging, data-hoarding, and outright transfer that is how companies treat data today. That's the problem, not a couple of extra forms when you cross a boarder.
glogla 5y ago
> We did obey and suffer the lockdowns. We did get the vaccine. But it certainly doesn't look like we're getting our liberties back. I mean, is the COVID gone? Is 99 % vaccinated so we have herd imunity? Do we have updated vaccine for the delta? Have we beaten the pandemic in any other way? Why would you expect the measures to end, when the situation is still underway? Would you complain "it's been two days why can't I return to my home" while the water from the flood is still there, new water is approaching and new dams to stop it are being build as we speak?
- systemvoltage 5y ago
  Mate, it's not going away. Ever.: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/08/coronavirus-will-never-go-away/614860/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/08/coronavir...
- voldacar 5y ago
  The situation? This is a disease with a mortality rate less than an order of magnitude greater than the flu. If I told you a few years ago that we would be shutting down the economy, forcing people to wear masks and submit to biometric tracking and surveillance, all to (ineffectively) combat a disease that isn't even much worse than the flu, you would have rightly scoffed at me. The liberties that have been taken from us are not even remotely proportional to the danger of the "situation"
  - soco 5y ago
    I'm afraid you have the numbers very wrong thus lmfgify, so we don't start spreading on HN false information: https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid (or just any other link)
Goety 5y ago
> We did obey and suffer the lockdowns. We did get the vaccine. But it certainly doesn't look like we're getting our liberties back. Security, whatever form you consider it, has not taken a step back since the end of the cold war. What reason or incentive could we possibly give already empowered people to be less powerful? Two years of complete or near complete communication monitoring combined with the patriot act is going to influence our society going forward for decades. This enormous feat of surveillance was done with little trust in oversight. > I don't personally think the pandemic warranted such a totalitarian crackdown on citizens. This thought is way too vilified and used as justification for extensive monitoring. Though we survived the resulting fallout of the entirety of pandemic measures I'm not sure many will agree in what form we want to continue.

kfprt 5y ago

Unfortunately liberties are almost never given back without violence. It is a shame on the west for accepting this abject surrender of individual liberty with docility.

Jensson 5y ago
At least EU lets people vote away all these oppressive elements locally, unlike a certain other union. It is a lot easier to vote back your freedom in smaller countries.

pasabagi 5y ago

When you have to give information, it doesn't really mean you're subject to a great deal of surveillance. You can tell you're subject to surveillance by the fact everything's really convenient and they already have all your info. I guess my feeling is the amount of information collected about me by governments since the pandemic started is probably measured in bytes, whereas the amount of information that's been stored and shared by one or another private company is in gigabytes. I'm got a scam text the other day about a DHL package that was arriving, because some asshole has been selling my purchase history somewhere along the line. Every time you have any kind of commercial interaction with anybody you enter into this really promiscuous wash of bad security, over-eager logging, data-hoarding, and outright transfer that is how companies treat data today. That's the problem, not a couple of extra forms when you cross a boarder.

glogla 5y ago

> We did obey and suffer the lockdowns. We did get the vaccine. But it certainly doesn't look like we're getting our liberties back. I mean, is the COVID gone? Is 99 % vaccinated so we have herd imunity? Do we have updated vaccine for the delta? Have we beaten the pandemic in any other way? Why would you expect the measures to end, when the situation is still underway? Would you complain "it's been two days why can't I return to my home" while the water from the flood is still there, new water is approaching and new dams to stop it are being build as we speak?

systemvoltage 5y ago
Mate, it's not going away. Ever.: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/08/coronavirus-will-never-go-away/614860/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/08/coronavir...
voldacar 5y ago
The situation? This is a disease with a mortality rate less than an order of magnitude greater than the flu. If I told you a few years ago that we would be shutting down the economy, forcing people to wear masks and submit to biometric tracking and surveillance, all to (ineffectively) combat a disease that isn't even much worse than the flu, you would have rightly scoffed at me. The liberties that have been taken from us are not even remotely proportional to the danger of the "situation"
- soco 5y ago
  I'm afraid you have the numbers very wrong thus lmfgify, so we don't start spreading on HN false information: https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid (or just any other link)

Goety 5y ago

> We did obey and suffer the lockdowns. We did get the vaccine. But it certainly doesn't look like we're getting our liberties back. Security, whatever form you consider it, has not taken a step back since the end of the cold war. What reason or incentive could we possibly give already empowered people to be less powerful? Two years of complete or near complete communication monitoring combined with the patriot act is going to influence our society going forward for decades. This enormous feat of surveillance was done with little trust in oversight. > I don't personally think the pandemic warranted such a totalitarian crackdown on citizens. This thought is way too vilified and used as justification for extensive monitoring. Though we survived the resulting fallout of the entirety of pandemic measures I'm not sure many will agree in what form we want to continue.