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> people developed almost no leisure activities! This is clearly not true. They didn't have modern leisure activities, but they had a vast array of activities

> people developed almost no leisure activities! This is clearly not true. They didn't have modern leisure activities, but they had a vast array of activities to keep them from getting bored when they weren't working or doing the arduous, nearly continuous preparation of meals. > Common people had almost no sports, no games (beyond precursors to Bocce or backgammon), no literature! No literature, sure, because they were illiterate (and it took the invention of the printing press to create a market for leisure books). But no games/sports? How about boules, bowling, prisoners' bars, blind man's bluff, table games (chess, checkers, backgammon, alquerque, three-in-a-row, mill, the fox and geese, tablut), dice, card games, variations on golf, hand-ball, kick the can, cockfighting, cow-tipping, bull-baiting, a form of rugby, wrestling, fencing, racing, and an innumerable array of local games often surrounding festivals with cultural/spiritual significance? They also did activities like swimming, fishing, hunting, playing music, singing, story telling, dancing, even ice skating. I'm tired from just listing them all! The most common leisure activity for men was probably drinking in the tavern. This shouldn't be understated; this took up a lot of time. And it wasn't because they had nothing else to do, it's because drinking and socializing is often preferable to the above activities, even today. A lot of people today don't play any games at all, but spend hours every day sitting around shooting the shit over cans of Bud. I'm not as familiar with womens' lives, but I imagine they had more responsibilities and less leisure time. Cooking, cleaning (such as it was), sewing/needlepoint, and raising children all takes considerable time, so they mightn't have had as much time for leisure. A lot of the above activities were also intended for men.

tsegratis 5y ago
Having lived in semi agrarian societies, can confirm for women too Also once the sun goes down, the work stops -- nobody aint cookin once they cant see the food, not even washing up
ScarletEmerald 5y ago
>> Common people had almost no sports, no games (beyond precursors to Bocce or backgammon), no literature! >No literature, sure, because they were illiterate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_literature https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_literature (I know you mentioned storytelling in passing, but that rather downplays it. Oral literature was a big deal.)
- Forge36 5y ago
  It has never occurred to me before your comment that literature could include oral stories. Thanks for adding that!
  - dredmorbius 5y ago
    Oral traditions, including fables and mythology, along with their mnemonic structures of repetition, reference, allusion, rhyme, meter, character, plot, etc., were early stores of knowledge and wisdom. Education for youth, knowledge of when to plant, how to spin, what natural resources (plants, animals, trees, minerals) were valued, skills in hunting, sailing, fishing, and war. These were finally recorded in written form around the 6th century or so in much of Europe and Asia. Subsequent scholars (Idries Shaw who's 1970's World Tales is a collection of such stories being an exemplar) has found that the same stories occur again and again across cultures. The etymologies of Zeus and Jupiter (*dyeu-peter- "Zeus Pater", literally Sky Father) are from Sanskrit, and similar / related names are shared and found across Eurasia. https://idriesshahfoundation.org/books/world-tales/ https://idriesshahfoundation.org/books/world-tales/ https://www.etymonline.com/word/Jupiter https://www.etymonline.com/word/Jupiter
agumonkey 5y ago
Maybe these simple time passing rituals were enough to enjoy their winters. I think we might consider them dull because we're not living their lives but maybe these were denser and fuller times than what we do today. It's also possible that having harsher conditions half a year, made simple games and gatherings deeply satisfying.
- jrumbut 5y ago
  I don't want to completely write off progress, because there's been a lot of that and I don't envy medieval peasants, however I think there's a tradeoff. They were bored most of the day waiting for the bocce-precursor or cock fight to begin, while we've got something to play with constantly that appears to give us anxiety and insomnia. Boredom isn't usually fatal and may even protect against other problems.
  - agumonkey 5y ago
    Me neither, I think it's time for a review about some hidden principles we assume are good for us (constant availability of easy pleasures) but may not be.
legitster 5y ago
Point taken about sitting around drinking still being an activity of choice! But many of the listed activities were either only available for royals in the medieval period (fencing, racquet games, table games, a deck of cards in the 1300s was reportedly worth a small herd of sheep), or simply weren't recorded until that flurry of leisure innovations in the 1700s. Perhaps this is all due to that pronounced rise in literacy that came at the same time. But I suspect literacy is one of the things that coincided with the huge material gains of normal people, and not unrelated.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
User23 5y ago
> I'm not as familiar with womens' lives, but I imagine they had more responsibilities and less leisure time. Cooking, cleaning (such as it was), sewing/needlepoint, and raising children all takes considerable time, so they mightn't have had as much time for leisure. A lot of the above activities were also intended for men. My understanding is that women would do most if not all of these activities in groups with other women and use it as an opportunity for talking.

tsegratis 5y ago

Having lived in semi agrarian societies, can confirm for women too Also once the sun goes down, the work stops -- nobody aint cookin once they cant see the food, not even washing up

ScarletEmerald 5y ago

>> Common people had almost no sports, no games (beyond precursors to Bocce or backgammon), no literature! >No literature, sure, because they were illiterate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_literature https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_literature (I know you mentioned storytelling in passing, but that rather downplays it. Oral literature was a big deal.)

Forge36 5y ago
It has never occurred to me before your comment that literature could include oral stories. Thanks for adding that!
- dredmorbius 5y ago
  Oral traditions, including fables and mythology, along with their mnemonic structures of repetition, reference, allusion, rhyme, meter, character, plot, etc., were early stores of knowledge and wisdom. Education for youth, knowledge of when to plant, how to spin, what natural resources (plants, animals, trees, minerals) were valued, skills in hunting, sailing, fishing, and war. These were finally recorded in written form around the 6th century or so in much of Europe and Asia. Subsequent scholars (Idries Shaw who's 1970's World Tales is a collection of such stories being an exemplar) has found that the same stories occur again and again across cultures. The etymologies of Zeus and Jupiter (*dyeu-peter- "Zeus Pater", literally Sky Father) are from Sanskrit, and similar / related names are shared and found across Eurasia. https://idriesshahfoundation.org/books/world-tales/ https://idriesshahfoundation.org/books/world-tales/ https://www.etymonline.com/word/Jupiter https://www.etymonline.com/word/Jupiter

agumonkey 5y ago

Maybe these simple time passing rituals were enough to enjoy their winters. I think we might consider them dull because we're not living their lives but maybe these were denser and fuller times than what we do today. It's also possible that having harsher conditions half a year, made simple games and gatherings deeply satisfying.

jrumbut 5y ago
I don't want to completely write off progress, because there's been a lot of that and I don't envy medieval peasants, however I think there's a tradeoff. They were bored most of the day waiting for the bocce-precursor or cock fight to begin, while we've got something to play with constantly that appears to give us anxiety and insomnia. Boredom isn't usually fatal and may even protect against other problems.
- agumonkey 5y ago
  Me neither, I think it's time for a review about some hidden principles we assume are good for us (constant availability of easy pleasures) but may not be.

legitster 5y ago

Point taken about sitting around drinking still being an activity of choice! But many of the listed activities were either only available for royals in the medieval period (fencing, racquet games, table games, a deck of cards in the 1300s was reportedly worth a small herd of sheep), or simply weren't recorded until that flurry of leisure innovations in the 1700s. Perhaps this is all due to that pronounced rise in literacy that came at the same time. But I suspect literacy is one of the things that coincided with the huge material gains of normal people, and not unrelated.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

User23 5y ago

> I'm not as familiar with womens' lives, but I imagine they had more responsibilities and less leisure time. Cooking, cleaning (such as it was), sewing/needlepoint, and raising children all takes considerable time, so they mightn't have had as much time for leisure. A lot of the above activities were also intended for men. My understanding is that women would do most if not all of these activities in groups with other women and use it as an opportunity for talking.