3 ms·

Why every airline executive needs to be fired, and replaced with entrepreneurs.

12 points by mtjl79 15y ago

true_religion 15y ago
For $45,000 down and about 15k a flight plus gas milage, you can have this experience with Delta. They'll fly you around the country in small jets used for business class clientele only. Now, its pricey but it exists. That's the seperate "class" that you're talking about. They meet you at the gate, take your luggage, and even send a limo to pick you up and take you to your destination. You never see security screening either.
tzs 15y ago
I may be misremembering this because I'm not a major traveller, but wasn't there a time when fares were regulated, so the government set the fare for a given route and class of travel, and the airlines competed for passengers by trying to make the travel experience better (since they could not compete on price)?
gte910h 15y ago
Flew Delta across country. Food was good (and you paid for it). Had TV+games on the back of every chair in coach. Even served Ben and Jerry's icecream. I think planes ARE being divvyed up like he is saying (business and or first class, sky lounges, etc), just he's underestimating the amount of people who don't want to pay to sit in luxury at 35000ft.
iwwr 15y ago
Airlines don't control airports, air traffic control or airport security. Flying has become a bad experience largely in the areas airlines are powerless to correct. Granted, marginally solvent entities probably don't have the capital to support these facilities too, but this just says the business model is very broken as it stands today. Could airports, air traffic control or the security detail (excluding the TSA) actually pay for themselves from flight revenues? I would guess they should since we won't go back to ocean liners or zeppelins.
- mtjl79 15y ago
  I don't think you're completely correct. Flying hasn't just become a bad experience due to the fact of airlines being powerless. So it's TSA's fault that I can move my legs on a flight, or I have to fight over armrests? You are saying that every airline is EXACTLY the same because of TSA? I completely disagree.
  - gobongo 15y ago
    "So it's TSA's fault that I can move my legs on a flight, or I have to fight over armrests?" No, that isn't the TSA's fault, that's your fault for not buying a business or first class ticket. I don't mean this to be a snarky response. I never fly anything but coach myself, and I think the airlines do have a lot to answer for in terms of poor customer service, but at least part of the problem is consumers expecting the red carpet treatment while paying relatively very little for something that is a huge convenience.
qq66 15y ago
This is just the incoherent rambling of someone who has no real knowledge of one of the most complicated businesses in the world. MOAR! BETTER! FIRE THEM ALL! He never got the memo that airlines operate under thousands of regulations, with extraordinary capital costs, in a marketplace where consumers will pick the ticket that's $20 cheaper every time.
- mtjl79 15y ago
  So this is all because of regulations? This is what this whole article is about - not picking the $20 cheaper ticket every time. That all the companies are the same, so why should anyone NOT pick the $20 cheaper ticket every time?
  - qq66 15y ago
    The companies are not all the same. Virgin America, Singapore Airlines, Southwest Airlines, British Airways, Emirates, all occupy different marketing niches compared to the standard US carriers (United, Delta, Northwest, etc.) What the few successful airlines have realized is that there isn't THAT much room to go premium in economy class -- that consumers might pay $20 more for an airline they like, but not $50. This blogger wants business class service for an economy class price plus a few dollars, and it's just delusional. A Boeing 777 costs $300 million.
    - mtjl79 15y ago
      What marketing niches? My different areas in the world - but airlines are all pretty much the same. Show me something amazing an innovate that an airline has done compared to a competitor. There are slight differences - and I travel all the time, I don't have any one airline I absolutely love and MUST fly. And if I did, you can be assured I would pay more. I am not looking for business class services for an economy price - I am looking for a DIFFERENT airline.
  - qq66 15y ago
    I hope I wasn't implying that the regulations are bad -- the incredible rigor of the airline industry, by all parties, is one of the major reasons that you can get in a gigantic metal tube for 20 hours, 7 miles in the air, going halfway across the globe, more safely than walking down the sidewalk.
nagrom 15y ago
Well, it seems there's a lot of the author's points covered by upgrading to business class, but that's an extra $1000 transatlantic, not $200. If it was $200, I'd pay the upgrade fee myself even if my employer wouldn't cover it. Unfortunately, $1k is simply too much :(
sardonicbryan 15y ago
"There should be two types of travel. Spit these airplanes up. People that want to pay the cheapest possible price, and pack them into an airplane and give them a shitty experience. And people that are willing to pay extra and be loyal, give me a completely different experience." This already exists, it's called First Class and platinum status. It may not exist at the price point that OP wants.
- mtjl79 15y ago
  But it's all still the same. I agree, there are minor differences in first class with airlines in my experience - but I am talking about an entirely different travel experience than what exists.
hnsmurf 15y ago
This guy has apparently never heard of first class. You pay $200 extra, just like he suggested, and you get every perk he suggested that isn't impossible due to government regulation. They'll give you more legroom, better food (and you don't have to pay for it), and even load your carryon for you.
- mtjl79 15y ago
  Of course I have heard of first class. But what I am talking about is an entirely different travel experience. Airlines trying to be different and innovating - and airlines trying to MAKE A PROFIT.
  - true_religion 15y ago
    What's different between the experience you suggest and first class?
    - mtjl79 15y ago
      I wasn't trying to define an experience, but give ideas of things I hate when I fly. The whole point of the article is why airlines can't make money - and maybe it's because they are all the same? So why do you think airlines can't make money?
      - Zev 15y ago
        So why do you think airlines can't make money? Because not enough people are willing to pay $200 more for slightly more legroom, nor for better food, nor for this or that or anything else you mentioned. As the OP said, airlines already do let you pay for as much of this as they can.
      - mtjl79 15y ago
        So you are saying if 20% of the 1 billion people that travel every year didn't pay $200 more - it wouldn't generate profit?

12 points by mtjl79 15y ago

For $45,000 down and about 15k a flight plus gas milage, you can have this experience with Delta. They'll fly you around the country in small jets used for business class clientele only. Now, its pricey but it exists. That's the seperate "class" that you're talking about. They meet you at the gate, take your luggage, and even send a limo to pick you up and take you to your destination. You never see security screening either.

tzs 15y ago

I may be misremembering this because I'm not a major traveller, but wasn't there a time when fares were regulated, so the government set the fare for a given route and class of travel, and the airlines competed for passengers by trying to make the travel experience better (since they could not compete on price)?

gte910h 15y ago

Flew Delta across country. Food was good (and you paid for it). Had TV+games on the back of every chair in coach. Even served Ben and Jerry's icecream. I think planes ARE being divvyed up like he is saying (business and or first class, sky lounges, etc), just he's underestimating the amount of people who don't want to pay to sit in luxury at 35000ft.

iwwr 15y ago

Airlines don't control airports, air traffic control or airport security. Flying has become a bad experience largely in the areas airlines are powerless to correct. Granted, marginally solvent entities probably don't have the capital to support these facilities too, but this just says the business model is very broken as it stands today. Could airports, air traffic control or the security detail (excluding the TSA) actually pay for themselves from flight revenues? I would guess they should since we won't go back to ocean liners or zeppelins.

mtjl79 15y ago
I don't think you're completely correct. Flying hasn't just become a bad experience due to the fact of airlines being powerless. So it's TSA's fault that I can move my legs on a flight, or I have to fight over armrests? You are saying that every airline is EXACTLY the same because of TSA? I completely disagree.
- gobongo 15y ago
  "So it's TSA's fault that I can move my legs on a flight, or I have to fight over armrests?" No, that isn't the TSA's fault, that's your fault for not buying a business or first class ticket. I don't mean this to be a snarky response. I never fly anything but coach myself, and I think the airlines do have a lot to answer for in terms of poor customer service, but at least part of the problem is consumers expecting the red carpet treatment while paying relatively very little for something that is a huge convenience.

qq66 15y ago

This is just the incoherent rambling of someone who has no real knowledge of one of the most complicated businesses in the world. MOAR! BETTER! FIRE THEM ALL! He never got the memo that airlines operate under thousands of regulations, with extraordinary capital costs, in a marketplace where consumers will pick the ticket that's $20 cheaper every time.

mtjl79 15y ago
So this is all because of regulations? This is what this whole article is about - not picking the $20 cheaper ticket every time. That all the companies are the same, so why should anyone NOT pick the $20 cheaper ticket every time?
- qq66 15y ago
  The companies are not all the same. Virgin America, Singapore Airlines, Southwest Airlines, British Airways, Emirates, all occupy different marketing niches compared to the standard US carriers (United, Delta, Northwest, etc.) What the few successful airlines have realized is that there isn't THAT much room to go premium in economy class -- that consumers might pay $20 more for an airline they like, but not $50. This blogger wants business class service for an economy class price plus a few dollars, and it's just delusional. A Boeing 777 costs $300 million.
  - mtjl79 15y ago
    What marketing niches? My different areas in the world - but airlines are all pretty much the same. Show me something amazing an innovate that an airline has done compared to a competitor. There are slight differences - and I travel all the time, I don't have any one airline I absolutely love and MUST fly. And if I did, you can be assured I would pay more. I am not looking for business class services for an economy price - I am looking for a DIFFERENT airline.
- qq66 15y ago
  I hope I wasn't implying that the regulations are bad -- the incredible rigor of the airline industry, by all parties, is one of the major reasons that you can get in a gigantic metal tube for 20 hours, 7 miles in the air, going halfway across the globe, more safely than walking down the sidewalk.

nagrom 15y ago

Well, it seems there's a lot of the author's points covered by upgrading to business class, but that's an extra $1000 transatlantic, not $200. If it was $200, I'd pay the upgrade fee myself even if my employer wouldn't cover it. Unfortunately, $1k is simply too much :(

sardonicbryan 15y ago

"There should be two types of travel. Spit these airplanes up. People that want to pay the cheapest possible price, and pack them into an airplane and give them a shitty experience. And people that are willing to pay extra and be loyal, give me a completely different experience." This already exists, it's called First Class and platinum status. It may not exist at the price point that OP wants.

mtjl79 15y ago
But it's all still the same. I agree, there are minor differences in first class with airlines in my experience - but I am talking about an entirely different travel experience than what exists.

hnsmurf 15y ago

This guy has apparently never heard of first class. You pay $200 extra, just like he suggested, and you get every perk he suggested that isn't impossible due to government regulation. They'll give you more legroom, better food (and you don't have to pay for it), and even load your carryon for you.

mtjl79 15y ago
Of course I have heard of first class. But what I am talking about is an entirely different travel experience. Airlines trying to be different and innovating - and airlines trying to MAKE A PROFIT.
- true_religion 15y ago
  What's different between the experience you suggest and first class?
  - mtjl79 15y ago
    I wasn't trying to define an experience, but give ideas of things I hate when I fly. The whole point of the article is why airlines can't make money - and maybe it's because they are all the same? So why do you think airlines can't make money?
    - Zev 15y ago
      So why do you think airlines can't make money? Because not enough people are willing to pay $200 more for slightly more legroom, nor for better food, nor for this or that or anything else you mentioned. As the OP said, airlines already do let you pay for as much of this as they can.
    - mtjl79 15y ago
      So you are saying if 20% of the 1 billion people that travel every year didn't pay $200 more - it wouldn't generate profit?