4 ms·

Yes, you're right, given the context. I hadn't properly followed the chain of comments, and every one of those statements is unreasonable. I just hear a lot of

by Taywee 5y ago

Yes, you're right, given the context. I hadn't properly followed the chain of comments, and every one of those statements is unreasonable. I just hear a lot of dog people who subscribe to the belief of "no bad dogs, only bad owners", which is cute, but not 100% realistic. You can do a lot to properly train and manage dog behavior, and much bad behavior is the fault of the owners, but there are special cases that really aren't that rare. I have a dog who, as far as I know, has never been abused and she has intense anxiety around new people and other dogs, despite following all the rules and doing everything right to try to socialize her properly for years. I get the ugliest stares from people when they ask if they can pet her and I say that she has anxiety problems, and that she's never bitten somebody, but I can't guarantee that she never would, because people she doesn't know stress her out quite badly. I've made a lot of progress with her, but I doubt I could ever get her to a point that she'd be perfectly comfortable around strangers.

pxc 5y ago
> I get the ugliest stares from people when they ask if they can pet her and I say that she has anxiety problems, and that she's never bitten somebody, but I can't guarantee that she never would, because people she doesn't know stress her out quite badly. A dog who doesn't like to be touched by random strangers is not a bad dog, and strangers are not entitled to touch her! I'm 100% with you on this one. Many people seem to think that all dogs should actively enjoy all kinds of invasions to their personal space (that they themselves would never tolerate), and it's ridiculous. You're also not, in my opinion based on this description, ‘making allowances’ for any unacceptable behavior. You're just keeping your dog (and people around her) safe and comfortable, despite the misplaced sense of entitlement of some strangers.
- Nevermark 5y ago
  Regarding your last paragraph, the owner is making an allowance for potential inappropriate behavior (biting) from a specific dog based on its unique personality (likely startled and very stressed by sudden petting from a stranger). That is a reasonable thing to do. Dogs like people get allowances within reason for having unique failure modes. We all have them.
  - pxc 5y ago
    We agree on the substance of the issue. But that's not the language I'd use. Telling people they're not welcome to pet the dog isn't an allowance, it's management. Making allowances, to me, would mean simply permitting a behavior you otherwise wouldn't, and actually allowing the dog to practice the behavior instead of managing the environment to prevent the behavior. People who simply do nothing about a small dog who snaps, growls, bites because 'he's harmless, he couldn't hurt anyone if he wanted to', for example, I would say are 'making allowances'.
    - Nevermark 5y ago
      We do agree, I think. My point is the owner is not in control of whether someone suddenly pets the dog, and it bites them. So the warning before, is also the allowance after. Depending on circumstances the owner can only partially control. If the warning were not also a reasonable allowance after a bad incident of the kind the owner imagines is possible, then instead of a warning the owner should be avoiding any possibility of the situation.
      - Taywee 5y ago
        In my particular situation, there has never been a "bad incident". When approached by strangers, she pancakes to the pavement and is visibly fearful and anxious. She'll even stray away when people she doesn't know are walking on the sidewalk within 30 feet or so. It's not just a warning, but also communication that being approached scares her (I always use the word "bite", because apparently when I say "my dog is terrified of strangers", some people think a sane response is "Oh, dogs love me! Come here, pooch, gimme a smooch!"). I don't take her to dog parks or places with lots of people. Avoiding any possibility of the situation would mean not taking her for daily walks around the neighborhood; this is just the reaction when somebody who is not familiar in the neighborhood sees her for the first time (often people just walking down their driveways toward me). I don't think that fully isolating her from ever seeing a person she doesn't know is necessarily the best choice for her either. For somebody to suddenly pet her, there would have to be a person who is hiding behind a hedge or car waiting to jump out and pet a strange dog, which would be a bad idea regardless of the dog's disposition to strangers. I understand your point, but I think you're making the assumption that I'm putting her into avoidable situations that are higher risk, rather than the bare minimum necessary proximity to people in order for her to get her exercise and the psychological necessity for anxious dogs to scope out their surroundings regularly.

by Taywee 5y ago

pxc 5y ago

> I get the ugliest stares from people when they ask if they can pet her and I say that she has anxiety problems, and that she's never bitten somebody, but I can't guarantee that she never would, because people she doesn't know stress her out quite badly. A dog who doesn't like to be touched by random strangers is not a bad dog, and strangers are not entitled to touch her! I'm 100% with you on this one. Many people seem to think that all dogs should actively enjoy all kinds of invasions to their personal space (that they themselves would never tolerate), and it's ridiculous. You're also not, in my opinion based on this description, ‘making allowances’ for any unacceptable behavior. You're just keeping your dog (and people around her) safe and comfortable, despite the misplaced sense of entitlement of some strangers.

Nevermark 5y ago
Regarding your last paragraph, the owner is making an allowance for potential inappropriate behavior (biting) from a specific dog based on its unique personality (likely startled and very stressed by sudden petting from a stranger). That is a reasonable thing to do. Dogs like people get allowances within reason for having unique failure modes. We all have them.
- pxc 5y ago
  We agree on the substance of the issue. But that's not the language I'd use. Telling people they're not welcome to pet the dog isn't an allowance, it's management. Making allowances, to me, would mean simply permitting a behavior you otherwise wouldn't, and actually allowing the dog to practice the behavior instead of managing the environment to prevent the behavior. People who simply do nothing about a small dog who snaps, growls, bites because 'he's harmless, he couldn't hurt anyone if he wanted to', for example, I would say are 'making allowances'.
  - Nevermark 5y ago
    We do agree, I think. My point is the owner is not in control of whether someone suddenly pets the dog, and it bites them. So the warning before, is also the allowance after. Depending on circumstances the owner can only partially control. If the warning were not also a reasonable allowance after a bad incident of the kind the owner imagines is possible, then instead of a warning the owner should be avoiding any possibility of the situation.
    - Taywee 5y ago
      In my particular situation, there has never been a "bad incident". When approached by strangers, she pancakes to the pavement and is visibly fearful and anxious. She'll even stray away when people she doesn't know are walking on the sidewalk within 30 feet or so. It's not just a warning, but also communication that being approached scares her (I always use the word "bite", because apparently when I say "my dog is terrified of strangers", some people think a sane response is "Oh, dogs love me! Come here, pooch, gimme a smooch!"). I don't take her to dog parks or places with lots of people. Avoiding any possibility of the situation would mean not taking her for daily walks around the neighborhood; this is just the reaction when somebody who is not familiar in the neighborhood sees her for the first time (often people just walking down their driveways toward me). I don't think that fully isolating her from ever seeing a person she doesn't know is necessarily the best choice for her either. For somebody to suddenly pet her, there would have to be a person who is hiding behind a hedge or car waiting to jump out and pet a strange dog, which would be a bad idea regardless of the dog's disposition to strangers. I understand your point, but I think you're making the assumption that I'm putting her into avoidable situations that are higher risk, rather than the bare minimum necessary proximity to people in order for her to get her exercise and the psychological necessity for anxious dogs to scope out their surroundings regularly.