5 ms·

> A week after the project launch, the anonymous developer known as Evil Ape who promised that game vanished along with the project’s official Twitter account a

by bko 5y ago

> A week after the project launch, the anonymous developer known as Evil Ape who promised that game vanished along with the project’s official Twitter account and website That's the one thing I don't understand about NFTs. Proponents claim they're supporting real artists, but so many of them are run by totally anonymous teams. The other big issue is that OpenSea has (what I assume) are non-binding bids so you can bid up your NFT. And obviously you can buy from an alt account or have an insider buy it. I would like to see an NFT market that burns 50% of the amount with binding bids and escrow. No one like burning tokens, but that'll make it a lot more expensive to have an insider inflate your NFT The rug pull here is also weird, because the project was a success. Sure they may have overpromised or been in over their head, but the organization and brand has at least some value. They could have sold it and not just abandoned it since they didn't owe anyone anything

swalsh 5y ago
I'm really bullish on NFT's (for example I think I'd feel a lot more confident if my ebook or streaming library was a series of NFT's as opposed to some entries in a database owned by Amazon. I'd actually own it and could choose to resell it if I wanted too) but we're really early right now, and I think there's some learning that needs to happen. Once we reach the trough of despair, we're be able to build this stuff out with the high profile failures.
- rebuilder 5y ago
  Why would you prefer the ebooks to be connected to NFTs? You’d still be relying on someone to store them for you, since the tokens don’t contain the actual work they reference. What am I missing?
- bko 5y ago
  > for example I think I'd feel a lot more confident if my ebook or streaming library was a series of NFT's How would an NFT be better than a non-DRM local version? Either the text would be available on the blockchain, in which case anyone would be able to read it, or the token would allow you to go to some central site where you put it in to access your book. In which case the site could just disappear or lock you out anyway. Unless there is some distributed platform where anyone can host copyrighted material and let you access with a token, but I doubt any publisher would allow anyone to hold and administer access to their intellectual property
- roywiggins 5y ago
  Serious question: how would an NFT ebook market work? The NFTs I've seen are all based around files that anyone can access, but only one person holds the NFT. But if the file is an ebook, I can just read the ebook and not buy the NFT. Why would I buy your NFT of the ebook? It seems like you'd need a DRM scheme, and now you are back to relying on a central authority. NFTs seem to have some value based on the prestige of being the person who holds the NFT, like being a sponsor of a park bench. Anyone can sit on the bench but only one person has their plaque on it. But with an eBook market, loads of people would own practically identical NFTs of each book.
  - cwkoss 5y ago
    License anyone who holds an NFT to distribute copies to other holders of the same NFT for profit. (Holding proven via cryptography) This would allow legal torrent-style distribution where hosting generates funds like mining. (It'd probably just be a nominal fee like $.10, but hosts could choose)
    - acdha 5y ago
      How would that be enforced? The problem is cheating and the blockchain has no way for me to prevent you from buying a copy for $10 and giving the epub to all of your friends, letting them pay you some other way. The current systems wouldn’t even require that first payment — anyone on the internet can just download it - so it’s unclear why any author would offer their works this way at all.
      - cwkoss 5y ago
        That's already happening right now regardless. This is a mechanism for licensing digital goods distribution. Currently, you need to sign up with a platform that will sell your thing for a significant cut, and the thing is stuck to your account and at risk of disappearing if the platform folds or decides to ban you. With this, your works could be distributed at no cost to the creator in a way that is legal and sanctioned by the creator. This is a way to make torrenting entirely above board. Digital ownership is more durable for consumers, and distribution is cheaper for creators.
- criddell 5y ago
  The only thing preventing ebook resale right now is rightsholder's fear of piracy. An NFT-based system wouldn't help in that regard.
- otikik 5y ago
  > Once we reach the trough of despair, we're be able to build this stuff out with the high profile failures. That is one option. The other one is that we realize that it's a worthless endeavor and we stop doing it. I predict they will eventually be made illegal, like pyramid schemes have been before it.
- littlestymaar 5y ago
  > I'm really bullish on NFT's (for example I think I'd feel a lot more confident if my ebook or streaming library was a series of NFT's Then you've probably misunderstood what an NFT is, because by definition creating an NFT means you are making it public and available to anybody, which when it comes to protecting your copyright is a strange things to do.
skohan 5y ago
I mean what is the value of having NFT's at all? Fraud and price inflation might be solvable problems, but it still seems like you have the core issue that there's no underlying value to the asset at all. And that's not even a comment on the artistic merit of many of these, which is a farce in itself, but all you get is your name in a ledger. The work itself is just a file like any other.
- bko 5y ago
  I'm skeptical, but I can think of few use cases: 1. you could actually want to support the artist. Right now I don't think the popular NFTs are real artists, but there's no reason real public artists can't jump on board. NFT could be a flex 2. Social networks could build in NFTs. Dorsey from Twitter mentioned he wants to add NFT verification into the app, so that could be a thing. And they could give you more prominent placement. It's basically like non-commercial advertising. Kind of like a star next to your name. 3. VR could try to enforce that some objects can only be controlled by the owner. It would be difficult, but possible
  - skohan 5y ago
    1. You can already donate to an artist you like through a platform like Patreon 2. If it's a feature of a social network, don't you already need a central authority? What's the value of an NFT then rather than just an entry in a database? 3. Similar: whoever is implementing this theoretical VR environment could just be the authority of who owns what. I don't see what an NFT adds here
    - BlueDingo 5y ago
      I think they mean that NFTs could be brought into the game or platform like Twitter. Buy a painting NFT, show it off in Second Life or the like. So the apps wouldn't control the assets, only verify them. I'm not "for" NFTs but that seems like it could be used in cool ways.
      - danaris 5y ago

by bko 5y ago

swalsh 5y ago

I'm really bullish on NFT's (for example I think I'd feel a lot more confident if my ebook or streaming library was a series of NFT's as opposed to some entries in a database owned by Amazon. I'd actually own it and could choose to resell it if I wanted too) but we're really early right now, and I think there's some learning that needs to happen. Once we reach the trough of despair, we're be able to build this stuff out with the high profile failures.

rebuilder 5y ago
Why would you prefer the ebooks to be connected to NFTs? You’d still be relying on someone to store them for you, since the tokens don’t contain the actual work they reference. What am I missing?
bko 5y ago
> for example I think I'd feel a lot more confident if my ebook or streaming library was a series of NFT's How would an NFT be better than a non-DRM local version? Either the text would be available on the blockchain, in which case anyone would be able to read it, or the token would allow you to go to some central site where you put it in to access your book. In which case the site could just disappear or lock you out anyway. Unless there is some distributed platform where anyone can host copyrighted material and let you access with a token, but I doubt any publisher would allow anyone to hold and administer access to their intellectual property
roywiggins 5y ago
Serious question: how would an NFT ebook market work? The NFTs I've seen are all based around files that anyone can access, but only one person holds the NFT. But if the file is an ebook, I can just read the ebook and not buy the NFT. Why would I buy your NFT of the ebook? It seems like you'd need a DRM scheme, and now you are back to relying on a central authority. NFTs seem to have some value based on the prestige of being the person who holds the NFT, like being a sponsor of a park bench. Anyone can sit on the bench but only one person has their plaque on it. But with an eBook market, loads of people would own practically identical NFTs of each book.
- cwkoss 5y ago
  License anyone who holds an NFT to distribute copies to other holders of the same NFT for profit. (Holding proven via cryptography) This would allow legal torrent-style distribution where hosting generates funds like mining. (It'd probably just be a nominal fee like $.10, but hosts could choose)
  - acdha 5y ago
    How would that be enforced? The problem is cheating and the blockchain has no way for me to prevent you from buying a copy for $10 and giving the epub to all of your friends, letting them pay you some other way. The current systems wouldn’t even require that first payment — anyone on the internet can just download it - so it’s unclear why any author would offer their works this way at all.
    - cwkoss 5y ago
      That's already happening right now regardless. This is a mechanism for licensing digital goods distribution. Currently, you need to sign up with a platform that will sell your thing for a significant cut, and the thing is stuck to your account and at risk of disappearing if the platform folds or decides to ban you. With this, your works could be distributed at no cost to the creator in a way that is legal and sanctioned by the creator. This is a way to make torrenting entirely above board. Digital ownership is more durable for consumers, and distribution is cheaper for creators.
criddell 5y ago
The only thing preventing ebook resale right now is rightsholder's fear of piracy. An NFT-based system wouldn't help in that regard.
otikik 5y ago
> Once we reach the trough of despair, we're be able to build this stuff out with the high profile failures. That is one option. The other one is that we realize that it's a worthless endeavor and we stop doing it. I predict they will eventually be made illegal, like pyramid schemes have been before it.
littlestymaar 5y ago
> I'm really bullish on NFT's (for example I think I'd feel a lot more confident if my ebook or streaming library was a series of NFT's Then you've probably misunderstood what an NFT is, because by definition creating an NFT means you are making it public and available to anybody, which when it comes to protecting your copyright is a strange things to do.

skohan 5y ago

I mean what is the value of having NFT's at all? Fraud and price inflation might be solvable problems, but it still seems like you have the core issue that there's no underlying value to the asset at all. And that's not even a comment on the artistic merit of many of these, which is a farce in itself, but all you get is your name in a ledger. The work itself is just a file like any other.

bko 5y ago
I'm skeptical, but I can think of few use cases: 1. you could actually want to support the artist. Right now I don't think the popular NFTs are real artists, but there's no reason real public artists can't jump on board. NFT could be a flex 2. Social networks could build in NFTs. Dorsey from Twitter mentioned he wants to add NFT verification into the app, so that could be a thing. And they could give you more prominent placement. It's basically like non-commercial advertising. Kind of like a star next to your name. 3. VR could try to enforce that some objects can only be controlled by the owner. It would be difficult, but possible
- skohan 5y ago
  1. You can already donate to an artist you like through a platform like Patreon 2. If it's a feature of a social network, don't you already need a central authority? What's the value of an NFT then rather than just an entry in a database? 3. Similar: whoever is implementing this theoretical VR environment could just be the authority of who owns what. I don't see what an NFT adds here
  - BlueDingo 5y ago
    I think they mean that NFTs could be brought into the game or platform like Twitter. Buy a painting NFT, show it off in Second Life or the like. So the apps wouldn't control the assets, only verify them. I'm not "for" NFTs but that seems like it could be used in cool ways.
    - danaris 5y ago