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Will you recognize that it doesn't actually have to be a point to it, though? As long as you can spellbind investors there doesn't actually need to be something

Will you recognize that it doesn't actually have to be a point to it, though? As long as you can spellbind investors there doesn't actually need to be something useful that's build at the end of the day. "Crypto" is a good example of this. A lot of the products and services that were build using Blockchain could just have used a normal RDBMS.

rapiz 5y ago
> A lot of the products and services that were build using Blockchain could just have used a normal RDBMS. That's how you dismiss the value and can't understand
gfodor 5y ago
Sure, no doubt. But the arguments fielded on HN as to why these various technologies are dead ends and will implode once people become rational are weak. They're usually from people who literally have never used the technology (or, used it many years ago.) At best, they have, don't get it (which is fine) but then go on to make the leap that since they didn't get anything out of it, the whole thing is a house of cards. This is a similar error as thinking every new tech that comes along is going to be the next big thing. The value prop of VR and AR is remote social presence on par with f2f and full sensory override. This is why Facebook is pivoting the entire company around it. This is not something to ignore and dismiss, unless you think Zuck is a complete idiot. The value prop of crypto is economic freedom. This is why VCs are pivoting their entire portfolios around it and why more than a trillion USD have rushed into it. This is not something to ignore and dismiss, unless you think the entire alternative Internet-based financial system being developed around crypto is a bunch of hot air. At a minimum, for those technologies, they deserve steelmanning given how far they've run without dying. The hubris it takes to dismiss things as big as these, which as much potential to radically alter society, isn't just unfounded, but foolish, given that being on the wrong side of this trade in the direction of dismissiveness is hugely risky if you are a technologist.
- unixbeard1337 5y ago
  >This is not something to ignore and dismiss, unless you think Zuck is a complete idiot. Well...
  - gfodor 5y ago
    unixbeard1337, I hate to break it to you, but Zuck is not a complete idiot.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- secondviewing 5y ago
  I want to make one thing clear from the outset - I want to get it. I want to get it because I want to restore my enthusiasm for tech. I want to understand how crypto and AR/VR are not a gimmick, a barren offshoot of human creativity that will lead nowhere. > The value prop of VR and AR is remote social presence on par with f2f and full sensory override Full sensory override how? VR (and VR-facilitated AR) can't even create an immersive visual experience at this point. It hasn't yet cracked the "3 dimensions" chestnut. You talk of "full sensory override" as if plugging into the brain stem was right around the corner (and was going to bring about that override). If you did have full-sensory override, you might be onto something, but the way things are today, with the tech so inadequate, it seems like a non-starter. Full-sensory override, if it will come, will likely come from a completely different direction. Think lucid dreaming. > The value prop of crypto is economic freedom The kind of economic freedom where even your ability to get involved in crypto at all is fully dependent on centralized exchanges, and their approval of you as a client? That, or rummage around in your attic trying to find a spare power plant that has to be there somewhere, so that you can enter the game via mining. I am sorry. I really would like to believe. But these hot technologies seem to come with insurmountable design flaws that have been there from day one, were still present at day one thousand, and will be there at day ten thousand. I think that is the reason for the broad skepticism.
  - gfodor 5y ago
    What are you drawing your conclusions re: VR from? Have you followed the research and used the hardware? It seems pretty clear we will have VR goggles that feel effectively indistinguishable from real life in terms of fidelity and optics relatively soon. Also there are already decentralized exchanges within crypto assets (eg uniswap), but you do need to find a counter party to get out of fiat. It’s being worked on and centralized exchanges aren’t your only option. It would be worth catching up on DeFi. Edit: btw I meant visual and auditory sensory override - I agree it is a ways off before you have full proprioception etc, if ever. Not necessary to beat face to face social presence tho.
    - kirenida 5y ago
      > It seems pretty clear we will have VR goggles that feel effectively indistinguishable from real life in terms of fidelity and optics relatively soon. Just out of curiosity, what about other senses? Smell, touch, temperature, taste? How close are we to fully experiencing a dinner / concert / mountain hike in VR?

rapiz 5y ago

> A lot of the products and services that were build using Blockchain could just have used a normal RDBMS. That's how you dismiss the value and can't understand

gfodor 5y ago

Sure, no doubt. But the arguments fielded on HN as to why these various technologies are dead ends and will implode once people become rational are weak. They're usually from people who literally have never used the technology (or, used it many years ago.) At best, they have, don't get it (which is fine) but then go on to make the leap that since they didn't get anything out of it, the whole thing is a house of cards. This is a similar error as thinking every new tech that comes along is going to be the next big thing. The value prop of VR and AR is remote social presence on par with f2f and full sensory override. This is why Facebook is pivoting the entire company around it. This is not something to ignore and dismiss, unless you think Zuck is a complete idiot. The value prop of crypto is economic freedom. This is why VCs are pivoting their entire portfolios around it and why more than a trillion USD have rushed into it. This is not something to ignore and dismiss, unless you think the entire alternative Internet-based financial system being developed around crypto is a bunch of hot air. At a minimum, for those technologies, they deserve steelmanning given how far they've run without dying. The hubris it takes to dismiss things as big as these, which as much potential to radically alter society, isn't just unfounded, but foolish, given that being on the wrong side of this trade in the direction of dismissiveness is hugely risky if you are a technologist.

unixbeard1337 5y ago
>This is not something to ignore and dismiss, unless you think Zuck is a complete idiot. Well...
- gfodor 5y ago
  unixbeard1337, I hate to break it to you, but Zuck is not a complete idiot.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
secondviewing 5y ago
I want to make one thing clear from the outset - I want to get it. I want to get it because I want to restore my enthusiasm for tech. I want to understand how crypto and AR/VR are not a gimmick, a barren offshoot of human creativity that will lead nowhere. > The value prop of VR and AR is remote social presence on par with f2f and full sensory override Full sensory override how? VR (and VR-facilitated AR) can't even create an immersive visual experience at this point. It hasn't yet cracked the "3 dimensions" chestnut. You talk of "full sensory override" as if plugging into the brain stem was right around the corner (and was going to bring about that override). If you did have full-sensory override, you might be onto something, but the way things are today, with the tech so inadequate, it seems like a non-starter. Full-sensory override, if it will come, will likely come from a completely different direction. Think lucid dreaming. > The value prop of crypto is economic freedom The kind of economic freedom where even your ability to get involved in crypto at all is fully dependent on centralized exchanges, and their approval of you as a client? That, or rummage around in your attic trying to find a spare power plant that has to be there somewhere, so that you can enter the game via mining. I am sorry. I really would like to believe. But these hot technologies seem to come with insurmountable design flaws that have been there from day one, were still present at day one thousand, and will be there at day ten thousand. I think that is the reason for the broad skepticism.
- gfodor 5y ago
  What are you drawing your conclusions re: VR from? Have you followed the research and used the hardware? It seems pretty clear we will have VR goggles that feel effectively indistinguishable from real life in terms of fidelity and optics relatively soon. Also there are already decentralized exchanges within crypto assets (eg uniswap), but you do need to find a counter party to get out of fiat. It’s being worked on and centralized exchanges aren’t your only option. It would be worth catching up on DeFi. Edit: btw I meant visual and auditory sensory override - I agree it is a ways off before you have full proprioception etc, if ever. Not necessary to beat face to face social presence tho.
  - kirenida 5y ago
    > It seems pretty clear we will have VR goggles that feel effectively indistinguishable from real life in terms of fidelity and optics relatively soon. Just out of curiosity, what about other senses? Smell, touch, temperature, taste? How close are we to fully experiencing a dinner / concert / mountain hike in VR?