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Thanks for the support. Clearly I have yet to master the paradigm of "adding value" that classifies it's increasingly clear that groupon is essentially a ponzi

Thanks for the support. Clearly I have yet to master the paradigm of "adding value" that classifies it's increasingly clear that groupon is essentially a ponzi scheme with some graphic design. can't wait for the post mortem documentary a la "the smartest guys in the room" as more valuable than my comment. Will continue to try and adapt to the local culture.

pbreit 15y ago
It's lame that HNers are so blind to the reality of the Groupon case. It's even more lame that some HN members use downvoting to express disagreement.
- pbreit 15y ago
  If you disagree with a post, you should post a reply with your arguments. Downvoting should not be used for simple disagreement.
  - tokenadult 15y ago
    Downvoting should not be used for simple disagreement. That's nowhere in the Hacker News Guidelines. http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html You are, of course, entitled to your opinion about how to use downvoting, but other users here are entitled to theirs. Here is what pg said about the matter 1280 days ago: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171 "I think it's ok to use the up and down arrows to express agreement. Obviously the uparrows aren't only for applauding politeness, so it seems reasonable that the downarrows aren't only for booing rudeness." There have been refinements in the site software since then, notably the change of a few months ago to hide individual comment karma scores from readers other than the comment's individual author, but there has never been a statement from site management that downvotes must necessarily be explained. Sometimes the best way to respond to a comment that is not thoughtful and well informed is to downvote it. When pg wrote his post earlier this year "Ask HN: How to stave off decline of HN?" http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2403696 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2403696 He wrote, "The problem has several components: comments that are (a) mean and/or (b) dumb that (c) get massively upvoted." By implication, some comments don't deserve any upvotes, and may indeed deserve downvotes without further subcomments.
    - pbreit 15y ago
      Regarding the first citation, I think this response is more useful: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117237 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117237 And your second example makes better sense than your first. None of those three reasons have to do with agreeance. Downvoting causes comments to literally disappear. It's tragic that good comments disappear because some people disagree. Those are frequently the most valuable comments. Downvoting should be reserved for obviously low/no value comments. It adds no value to downvote comments merely because they express that Groupon might have a viable business.
    - pbreit 15y ago
      Why would you want to hide comments that you merely disagree with? That goes against everything a quality discussion site like HN stands for. Downvoting should be used for comments that do not advance the discussion.
switch 15y ago
No, it's not that. It's your flawed assumption that everyone else is wrong and you're right. Groupon may or may not be a viable business. However, your assumption is guiding you and you haven't provided enough data or facts. Your opinion doesn't really matter or your annoyance that everyone is picking on poor Groupon. There are a lot of red flags and you are avoiding mentioning them and not mentioning very much supporting data for your assumption. We aren't here to listen to wild conjecture.
- ForrestN 15y ago
  Well, in so far as I believe my argument, I guess I think others are wrong. But all of this is conjecture, that's what we're doing here, right? I could go back and cite a bunch of press releases, b that burden of proof isn't being applied to those who are making all of these claims about Groupon being a scam. Anyway I'm mostly disputing arguments rather than making positive claims.
- pbreit 15y ago
  The post you are referring to has quite a few more solid points than most of what I read here. The fact is, the post was downvoted because some set of HNers both disagree that Groupon could be a viable business and feel that downvoting is the proper way to express disagreement in HN. It's completely lame.

pbreit 15y ago

It's lame that HNers are so blind to the reality of the Groupon case. It's even more lame that some HN members use downvoting to express disagreement.

pbreit 15y ago
If you disagree with a post, you should post a reply with your arguments. Downvoting should not be used for simple disagreement.
- tokenadult 15y ago
  Downvoting should not be used for simple disagreement. That's nowhere in the Hacker News Guidelines. http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html You are, of course, entitled to your opinion about how to use downvoting, but other users here are entitled to theirs. Here is what pg said about the matter 1280 days ago: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171 "I think it's ok to use the up and down arrows to express agreement. Obviously the uparrows aren't only for applauding politeness, so it seems reasonable that the downarrows aren't only for booing rudeness." There have been refinements in the site software since then, notably the change of a few months ago to hide individual comment karma scores from readers other than the comment's individual author, but there has never been a statement from site management that downvotes must necessarily be explained. Sometimes the best way to respond to a comment that is not thoughtful and well informed is to downvote it. When pg wrote his post earlier this year "Ask HN: How to stave off decline of HN?" http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2403696 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2403696 He wrote, "The problem has several components: comments that are (a) mean and/or (b) dumb that (c) get massively upvoted." By implication, some comments don't deserve any upvotes, and may indeed deserve downvotes without further subcomments.
  - pbreit 15y ago
    Regarding the first citation, I think this response is more useful: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117237 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117237 And your second example makes better sense than your first. None of those three reasons have to do with agreeance. Downvoting causes comments to literally disappear. It's tragic that good comments disappear because some people disagree. Those are frequently the most valuable comments. Downvoting should be reserved for obviously low/no value comments. It adds no value to downvote comments merely because they express that Groupon might have a viable business.
  - pbreit 15y ago
    Why would you want to hide comments that you merely disagree with? That goes against everything a quality discussion site like HN stands for. Downvoting should be used for comments that do not advance the discussion.

switch 15y ago

No, it's not that. It's your flawed assumption that everyone else is wrong and you're right. Groupon may or may not be a viable business. However, your assumption is guiding you and you haven't provided enough data or facts. Your opinion doesn't really matter or your annoyance that everyone is picking on poor Groupon. There are a lot of red flags and you are avoiding mentioning them and not mentioning very much supporting data for your assumption. We aren't here to listen to wild conjecture.

ForrestN 15y ago
Well, in so far as I believe my argument, I guess I think others are wrong. But all of this is conjecture, that's what we're doing here, right? I could go back and cite a bunch of press releases, b that burden of proof isn't being applied to those who are making all of these claims about Groupon being a scam. Anyway I'm mostly disputing arguments rather than making positive claims.
pbreit 15y ago
The post you are referring to has quite a few more solid points than most of what I read here. The fact is, the post was downvoted because some set of HNers both disagree that Groupon could be a viable business and feel that downvoting is the proper way to express disagreement in HN. It's completely lame.