5 ms·

All we really need to collectively build up a metaverse is the HTML of VR, where experiences can be linked together. Web browsers can already launch 3D experien

All we really need to collectively build up a metaverse is the HTML of VR, where experiences can be linked together. Web browsers can already launch 3D experiences in VR its just clunky and I switch it off because ads on some sites start VR for some reason. We already have quite a few 2D into VR desktops too and they work. Seamless transition and placement appears to be a bit lacking but it doesn't feel all that far away. The metaverse is the internet we just need a bit of linking it all together, one company building it top down isn't going to beat out the obvious open internet approach.

meheleventyone 5y ago
I think there’s prior questions of what does interoperability actually add and why doesn’t it already exist? For example with the web the interoperability is really between the browser and websites rather than between websites. Although a few do interoperate. This is more similar to how Roblox or Steam works where one program lets you join lots of different games and maintains some common state than common ideas of interoperability in the metaverse.
- TheColorYellow 5y ago
  Interesting question, but doesn't a "metaverse" require interoperable applications to some extent? I think the Zuck use case was buying a t-shirt for a virtual avatar and I want to use that t-shirt in other applications. There is a matter of interoperability required at the level of the data that sits behind both applications as it pertains to the user that sits on the other side of those applications. (meaning just sharing data isn't enough, there is user level context as well). And if you reduce interoperability to a single entity owned platform (like Steam), well other platforms will exist and the interoperability problem will be recreated.
  - meheleventyone 5y ago
    I don’t think it’s axiomatic that the metaverse needs interoperability of t-shirts. What I’m asking for is arguments for why that is the case and given that the current Internet is basically a metaverse sans interoperability why we haven’t seen it done yet. It’s not really a technical hurdle IMO.
    - TheColorYellow 5y ago
      It's not an entirely technical hurdle, but eventually you run into repeated issues when trying to recreate application context across different applications. That means to do so at scale can be solved by a technology solution. To me the issues that require addressing are things like standardization, general uniqueness proofs, Cross-app total order broadcast, identity and service discovery, to just name a few. My feeling is that the internet does not solve these problems, especially at the application layer, and therefore interoperability is a technical solution that is required for a metaverse like vision.
  - wnkrshm 5y ago
    If that t-shirt isn't created procedurally, then any interoperability between differently themed worlds will just make everything look like 2nd Life, since an artist would have to create another, similar shirt in a style that fits.
    - TheColorYellow 5y ago
      Agreed that the procedural complication is not resolved. Soltuons that do make this problem go away is the next frontier in this conversation. I believe the path to those soltuons does lie on the road of ubiquitous and dynamic technical interoperabity for web applications.
phh 5y ago
So I totally agree we need to build a metaverse collectively. Letting it go to Facebook would be very bad. Most people here totally dismiss the whole thing, which isn't helping. Anyway, back to what you said, I agree that seamless transition is the very big factor. IMO, "metaverse" requires seamless transition between assets not worlds. Current VR experience, even assuming a perfect browser, means that you switch between world when switching between websites. I believe that most usages would be that pages are mostly assets, not whole worlds. Kinda frames I guess. I don't think there is any specification at the moment for such a thing. (Now I'm daydreaming of a VR RSS reader, where I move in my various news. Nope that doesn't sound like a good UX)
2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
I think this is exactly their aim. Zuck mentions "links" to other places and making it a standard. I'm very nervous because Facebook is the last company that I want leading this yet they are the only ones who seem fully invested.
carapace 5y ago
Like VRML? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vrml https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vrml > VRML (Virtual Reality Modeling Language, pronounced vermal or by its initials, originally—before 1995—known as the Virtual Reality Markup Language) is a standard file format for representing 3-dimensional (3D) interactive vector graphics, designed particularly with the World Wide Web in mind. It has been superseded by X3D. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X3D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X3D X3D is a royalty-free ISO/IEC standard for declaratively representing 3D computer graphics. File format support includes XML, ClassicVRML, Compressed Binary Encoding (CBE) and a draft JSON encoding. X3D became the successor to the Virtual Reality Modeling Language (VRML) in 2001.[1] X3D features extensions to VRML (e.g. CAD, geospatial, humanoid animation, NURBS, etc.), the ability to encode the scene using an XML syntax as well as the Open Inventor-like syntax of VRML97, or binary formatting, and enhanced APIs. There's also OpenXR: https://www.khronos.org/registry/OpenXR/specs/1.0/html/xrspec.html https://www.khronos.org/registry/OpenXR/specs/1.0/html/xrspe...

meheleventyone 5y ago

I think there’s prior questions of what does interoperability actually add and why doesn’t it already exist? For example with the web the interoperability is really between the browser and websites rather than between websites. Although a few do interoperate. This is more similar to how Roblox or Steam works where one program lets you join lots of different games and maintains some common state than common ideas of interoperability in the metaverse.

TheColorYellow 5y ago
Interesting question, but doesn't a "metaverse" require interoperable applications to some extent? I think the Zuck use case was buying a t-shirt for a virtual avatar and I want to use that t-shirt in other applications. There is a matter of interoperability required at the level of the data that sits behind both applications as it pertains to the user that sits on the other side of those applications. (meaning just sharing data isn't enough, there is user level context as well). And if you reduce interoperability to a single entity owned platform (like Steam), well other platforms will exist and the interoperability problem will be recreated.
- meheleventyone 5y ago
  I don’t think it’s axiomatic that the metaverse needs interoperability of t-shirts. What I’m asking for is arguments for why that is the case and given that the current Internet is basically a metaverse sans interoperability why we haven’t seen it done yet. It’s not really a technical hurdle IMO.
  - TheColorYellow 5y ago
    It's not an entirely technical hurdle, but eventually you run into repeated issues when trying to recreate application context across different applications. That means to do so at scale can be solved by a technology solution. To me the issues that require addressing are things like standardization, general uniqueness proofs, Cross-app total order broadcast, identity and service discovery, to just name a few. My feeling is that the internet does not solve these problems, especially at the application layer, and therefore interoperability is a technical solution that is required for a metaverse like vision.
- wnkrshm 5y ago
  If that t-shirt isn't created procedurally, then any interoperability between differently themed worlds will just make everything look like 2nd Life, since an artist would have to create another, similar shirt in a style that fits.
  - TheColorYellow 5y ago
    Agreed that the procedural complication is not resolved. Soltuons that do make this problem go away is the next frontier in this conversation. I believe the path to those soltuons does lie on the road of ubiquitous and dynamic technical interoperabity for web applications.

phh 5y ago

So I totally agree we need to build a metaverse collectively. Letting it go to Facebook would be very bad. Most people here totally dismiss the whole thing, which isn't helping. Anyway, back to what you said, I agree that seamless transition is the very big factor. IMO, "metaverse" requires seamless transition between assets not worlds. Current VR experience, even assuming a perfect browser, means that you switch between world when switching between websites. I believe that most usages would be that pages are mostly assets, not whole worlds. Kinda frames I guess. I don't think there is any specification at the moment for such a thing. (Now I'm daydreaming of a VR RSS reader, where I move in my various news. Nope that doesn't sound like a good UX)

2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago

I think this is exactly their aim. Zuck mentions "links" to other places and making it a standard. I'm very nervous because Facebook is the last company that I want leading this yet they are the only ones who seem fully invested.

carapace 5y ago

Like VRML? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vrml https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vrml > VRML (Virtual Reality Modeling Language, pronounced vermal or by its initials, originally—before 1995—known as the Virtual Reality Markup Language) is a standard file format for representing 3-dimensional (3D) interactive vector graphics, designed particularly with the World Wide Web in mind. It has been superseded by X3D. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X3D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X3D X3D is a royalty-free ISO/IEC standard for declaratively representing 3D computer graphics. File format support includes XML, ClassicVRML, Compressed Binary Encoding (CBE) and a draft JSON encoding. X3D became the successor to the Virtual Reality Modeling Language (VRML) in 2001.[1] X3D features extensions to VRML (e.g. CAD, geospatial, humanoid animation, NURBS, etc.), the ability to encode the scene using an XML syntax as well as the Open Inventor-like syntax of VRML97, or binary formatting, and enhanced APIs. There's also OpenXR: https://www.khronos.org/registry/OpenXR/specs/1.0/html/xrspec.html https://www.khronos.org/registry/OpenXR/specs/1.0/html/xrspe...