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>there exists criminal behavior that most reasonable people would agree is bad and should be stopped Absolutely. >In formulating your statement that examining

>there exists criminal behavior that most reasonable people would agree is bad and should be stopped Absolutely. >In formulating your statement that examining criminal behavior is a problem, you are suggesting there shouldn’t be ways to uncover crimes. I didn't get that at all. Before Signal and other encrypted apps, folks who didn't want to be spied upon would meet in person, in private places or write messages in code. That didn't stop the police from bringing down many criminals, such as Al Capone, the New York Mafia and many others, did it? Nope, it didn't. What you seem to be advocating is that everyone's privacy should be forfeited so police can get information without doing, you know, police work. I'm all for bringing criminals (especially violent ones) to justice. But I'm not willing to give up my privacy so that police can spend their time eating donuts instead of their jobs. Feel free to disagree, but I'm going to keep using Signal and be glad of it -- not because I'm involved in criminal activity, but because I value my privacy.

azinman2 5y ago
You’re attacking a straw man. I never proposed anything other than recognizing the cost of encryption. And if you are to honestly do so, then you also need to recognize things happen now digitally that would have been in person before, which ends up leaving clues like witnesses and DNA. The world isn’t black and white.
- nobody9999 5y ago
  >You’re attacking a straw man. I never proposed anything other than recognizing the cost of encryption. I assume you're referring to this sentence in my comment: What you seem to be advocating is that everyone's privacy should be forfeited so police can get information without doing, you know, police work. Note that I said seem. Which, in this context, means that's what I understood you to be saying. Thank you for clarifying. What's more, I'm not attacking anything or anyone. Rather, I'm expositing my views WRT encrypted communications and police work. That you interpreted the expression of my views as an attack says more about you than about me, IMHO.
  - azinman2 5y ago
    Actually the word 'attack' comes from the expression that gave rise to the logical fallacy 'attacking a straw man.' [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
    - nobody9999 5y ago
      I'm familiar with that particular logical fallacy. However, I fail to see how that applies here. What is the "strawman" you appear to believe that I've set up and then attempted to knock down?

azinman2 5y ago

You’re attacking a straw man. I never proposed anything other than recognizing the cost of encryption. And if you are to honestly do so, then you also need to recognize things happen now digitally that would have been in person before, which ends up leaving clues like witnesses and DNA. The world isn’t black and white.

nobody9999 5y ago
>You’re attacking a straw man. I never proposed anything other than recognizing the cost of encryption. I assume you're referring to this sentence in my comment: What you seem to be advocating is that everyone's privacy should be forfeited so police can get information without doing, you know, police work. Note that I said seem. Which, in this context, means that's what I understood you to be saying. Thank you for clarifying. What's more, I'm not attacking anything or anyone. Rather, I'm expositing my views WRT encrypted communications and police work. That you interpreted the expression of my views as an attack says more about you than about me, IMHO.
- azinman2 5y ago
  Actually the word 'attack' comes from the expression that gave rise to the logical fallacy 'attacking a straw man.' [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
  - nobody9999 5y ago
    I'm familiar with that particular logical fallacy. However, I fail to see how that applies here. What is the "strawman" you appear to believe that I've set up and then attempted to knock down?