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..and being bitter and cynical about EV success. Seems like they might have been in petroleum's back pocket this whole time.

by xbar 5y ago

mardifoufs 5y ago
I know your comment is tongue-in-cheek but ha! I don't know about that. The Prius, even if it's just a hybrid, probably led to more aggregate fuel/carbon emission savings than every (non-tesla/chinese manufacturers) EV model combined. "Old school" manufacturers like BMW and VW may look like they are doing better because of the dozens of models they've released but the actual sales numbers are so tiny that their impact is basically 0. The Prius on the other hand was a massive sales success, and it really was what made hybrids a thing.
- mxschumacher 5y ago
  The US is the smallest and slowest growing of the big three EV markets. China and Europe being the other two. Please find year to date (2021) EV sales by car group here: https://eu-evs.com/bestSellers/ALL/Groups/Year/2021 https://eu-evs.com/bestSellers/ALL/Groups/Year/2021 Volkswagen is outselling Tesla.
  - 11thEarlOfMar 5y ago
    Looking at the chart, VW sold 173.5k in the Groups column. Adding the Volkswagen entries in the Model column gets to about 102k. Is the left column all cars? Or includes hybrids? Adding the Models, VW is slightly ahead at about 102k vs about 95k for Tesla.
    - daoistmonk 5y ago
      VW Group includes lots of sub-brands: i.e. AUDI, PORSCHE, SKODA.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group#Subsidiaries_and_brands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group#Subsidiaries_...
cure 5y ago
Applying Hanlon's razor... I think it's just a case executive incompetence/severe tunnel vision: Toyota has been in hydrogen lala-land for a good long while now. Now they have some serious catching up to do.
- yongjik 5y ago
  Similar in South Korea: its president is promoting hydrogen as next-generation "clean energy" (a claim that I find very questionable), while Korea's hydrogen is 100% generated from fossil fuels. Coincidentally, public opinion in both countries are staunchly against nuclear power, which I suspect played a role. When you eliminate a proven, stable source of power, you end up campaigning for everybody to use less electricity "to save the Earth." Once you buy that argument, EVs start to look less palatable. (Better to peddle hydrogen and don't look too close at how it's made.)
  - duffyjp 5y ago
    I was in Tokyo on March 11, 2011. I completely understand why the Japanese public are against nuclear power.

..and being bitter and cynical about EV success. Seems like they might have been in petroleum's back pocket this whole time.

by xbar 5y ago

..and being bitter and cynical about EV success. Seems like they might have been in petroleum's back pocket this whole time.

mardifoufs 5y ago

I know your comment is tongue-in-cheek but ha! I don't know about that. The Prius, even if it's just a hybrid, probably led to more aggregate fuel/carbon emission savings than every (non-tesla/chinese manufacturers) EV model combined. "Old school" manufacturers like BMW and VW may look like they are doing better because of the dozens of models they've released but the actual sales numbers are so tiny that their impact is basically 0. The Prius on the other hand was a massive sales success, and it really was what made hybrids a thing.

mxschumacher 5y ago
The US is the smallest and slowest growing of the big three EV markets. China and Europe being the other two. Please find year to date (2021) EV sales by car group here: https://eu-evs.com/bestSellers/ALL/Groups/Year/2021 https://eu-evs.com/bestSellers/ALL/Groups/Year/2021 Volkswagen is outselling Tesla.
- 11thEarlOfMar 5y ago
  Looking at the chart, VW sold 173.5k in the Groups column. Adding the Volkswagen entries in the Model column gets to about 102k. Is the left column all cars? Or includes hybrids? Adding the Models, VW is slightly ahead at about 102k vs about 95k for Tesla.
  - daoistmonk 5y ago
    VW Group includes lots of sub-brands: i.e. AUDI, PORSCHE, SKODA.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group#Subsidiaries_and_brands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group#Subsidiaries_...

cure 5y ago

Applying Hanlon's razor... I think it's just a case executive incompetence/severe tunnel vision: Toyota has been in hydrogen lala-land for a good long while now. Now they have some serious catching up to do.

yongjik 5y ago
Similar in South Korea: its president is promoting hydrogen as next-generation "clean energy" (a claim that I find very questionable), while Korea's hydrogen is 100% generated from fossil fuels. Coincidentally, public opinion in both countries are staunchly against nuclear power, which I suspect played a role. When you eliminate a proven, stable source of power, you end up campaigning for everybody to use less electricity "to save the Earth." Once you buy that argument, EVs start to look less palatable. (Better to peddle hydrogen and don't look too close at how it's made.)
- duffyjp 5y ago
  I was in Tokyo on March 11, 2011. I completely understand why the Japanese public are against nuclear power.