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In their defense, most EV versions of gasoline cars haven't sold particularly well (remember the Honda Fit EV, anyone?) The EVs that ended up selling well ulti

In their defense, most EV versions of gasoline cars haven't sold particularly well (remember the Honda Fit EV, anyone?) The EVs that ended up selling well ultimately were Tesla vehicles, which were closer to this thing than an electric Camry.

rsj_hn 5y ago
Yup. This idea that companies like Toyota are intentionally not selling products that consumers want but other products that consumers don't want is very common and very wrong. It just means that not everyone has the same taste, and some peoples' tastes are in a minority, even if they don't know it.
- rsync 5y ago
  "This idea that companies like Toyota are intentionally not selling products that consumers want ..." This is, in fact, the case. If Audi launches electric A4/A6/A8 tomorrow, that will be (roughly) 100% of their sales and they know it. But they have billions sunk into ... (see my comment downthread about manufacturing and tooling). So consumers need to wait for their lifetime ROI to satisfy the incumbent manufacturers such that they are willing to jettison those investments and electrify their actual lineup. The worst offender, by far, is Volvo whose marketing pedigree, target audience and models produces are a perfect match for 21st century electric car buyers ... and yet we're two full model cycles past the Tesla Model S and I still can't get an electric V90 wagon ...
zardo 5y ago
That's largely because you do actually need a new platform for your EV. The component packaging needs are significantly different, so EVs stuffed into conventional platforms need to make a lot of compromises. But that's all under the skin. The styling and interiors can look as mundane or wild as the maker chooses.
rodgerd 5y ago
> most EV versions of gasoline cars haven't sold particularly well Perhaps. But the Leaf alone is a significant counterpoint to that. Contrast with the abject market failure of the electric-from-the-ground-up i3.
neogodless 5y ago
But you're not quite nailing the reasons behind the EV versions not selling well. The Honda Fit EV had an 82 mile range, and could only be leased. (And Honda Fits were neat, but never sold that well, and even the gas version was pulled from the United States market.) The Golf, on the other hand, is very popular, but the Golf EV had a 125-mile range, and was only sold in very limited markets/quantities. What EV version of a popular vehicle had competitive range, produced in sufficient quality, and priced competitively? I can't think of any.
- marsokod 5y ago
  I can think of the e-niro, but that's about it. Maybe the Peugeot e-208. But yes, these are exceptions.
- Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
  IMO, short-range EVs are actually bad for the EV market as a whole. You'd think "Not everyone needs a car that can do long trips, so an EV that trades range for affordability is just satisfying a market segment!", and you'd be right...if consumers were rational. Range anxiety is one of the top hurdles for EV adoption. Manufacturers that produce cars with only ~100 mile range, that only support charging at <20 kW only perpetuate the mentality that EVs don't have the range to be viable for anything other than commuting. People who aren't EV enthusiasts and don't follow car or tech news specifically are likely to miss the memo that not only do long-range EVs exist, but they can be charged FAST. Obviously, they still don't charge as fast as a gas tank can be filled, but fast enough that day trips are quite viable, and road trips only require a little extra planning.
  - fomine3 5y ago
    Not all families should have long range car. Short range cars should be the best for second car that never used for trip. It's also best usage of EV for now because it uses less batteries.
- lastofthemojito 5y ago
  Not sure if the Golf is the best example as it too has been pulled from the US market (with only more expensive performance variants remaining): https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35281010/vw-ends-production-golf-hatchback-us-market/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35281010/vw-ends-producti...
happytiger 5y ago
Can’t wait to see what happens with the electric f150.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  The electric F150 will primarily consume the market share of the Tacoma, Honda Pilot and other four-door people haulers that are staples of high class suburbs and gated communities. Being able to check the EV box will give it the proper image and they'll buy it in droves.

rsj_hn 5y ago

Yup. This idea that companies like Toyota are intentionally not selling products that consumers want but other products that consumers don't want is very common and very wrong. It just means that not everyone has the same taste, and some peoples' tastes are in a minority, even if they don't know it.

rsync 5y ago
"This idea that companies like Toyota are intentionally not selling products that consumers want ..." This is, in fact, the case. If Audi launches electric A4/A6/A8 tomorrow, that will be (roughly) 100% of their sales and they know it. But they have billions sunk into ... (see my comment downthread about manufacturing and tooling). So consumers need to wait for their lifetime ROI to satisfy the incumbent manufacturers such that they are willing to jettison those investments and electrify their actual lineup. The worst offender, by far, is Volvo whose marketing pedigree, target audience and models produces are a perfect match for 21st century electric car buyers ... and yet we're two full model cycles past the Tesla Model S and I still can't get an electric V90 wagon ...

zardo 5y ago

That's largely because you do actually need a new platform for your EV. The component packaging needs are significantly different, so EVs stuffed into conventional platforms need to make a lot of compromises. But that's all under the skin. The styling and interiors can look as mundane or wild as the maker chooses.

rodgerd 5y ago

> most EV versions of gasoline cars haven't sold particularly well Perhaps. But the Leaf alone is a significant counterpoint to that. Contrast with the abject market failure of the electric-from-the-ground-up i3.

neogodless 5y ago

But you're not quite nailing the reasons behind the EV versions not selling well. The Honda Fit EV had an 82 mile range, and could only be leased. (And Honda Fits were neat, but never sold that well, and even the gas version was pulled from the United States market.) The Golf, on the other hand, is very popular, but the Golf EV had a 125-mile range, and was only sold in very limited markets/quantities. What EV version of a popular vehicle had competitive range, produced in sufficient quality, and priced competitively? I can't think of any.

marsokod 5y ago
I can think of the e-niro, but that's about it. Maybe the Peugeot e-208. But yes, these are exceptions.
Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
IMO, short-range EVs are actually bad for the EV market as a whole. You'd think "Not everyone needs a car that can do long trips, so an EV that trades range for affordability is just satisfying a market segment!", and you'd be right...if consumers were rational. Range anxiety is one of the top hurdles for EV adoption. Manufacturers that produce cars with only ~100 mile range, that only support charging at <20 kW only perpetuate the mentality that EVs don't have the range to be viable for anything other than commuting. People who aren't EV enthusiasts and don't follow car or tech news specifically are likely to miss the memo that not only do long-range EVs exist, but they can be charged FAST. Obviously, they still don't charge as fast as a gas tank can be filled, but fast enough that day trips are quite viable, and road trips only require a little extra planning.
- fomine3 5y ago
  Not all families should have long range car. Short range cars should be the best for second car that never used for trip. It's also best usage of EV for now because it uses less batteries.
lastofthemojito 5y ago
Not sure if the Golf is the best example as it too has been pulled from the US market (with only more expensive performance variants remaining): https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35281010/vw-ends-production-golf-hatchback-us-market/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35281010/vw-ends-producti...

happytiger 5y ago

Can’t wait to see what happens with the electric f150.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
The electric F150 will primarily consume the market share of the Tacoma, Honda Pilot and other four-door people haulers that are staples of high class suburbs and gated communities. Being able to check the EV box will give it the proper image and they'll buy it in droves.