6 ms·

Seems like nobody else cares about the inability to run Boot Camp on M1 Macs? There’s enough Windows-only software out there that I wouldn’t want to upgrade my

by in3d 5y ago

Seems like nobody else cares about the inability to run Boot Camp on M1 Macs? There’s enough Windows-only software out there that I wouldn’t want to upgrade my older x86 MacBook Pro.

alphabettsy 5y ago
I haven’t read up much, but virtualization options like Parallels exist. Can’t say how well it works. Personally haven’t needed to use a Windows-only app in years.
dfabulich 5y ago
You can run Windows 11 for ARM via Parallels, but it's bleeding edge; you have to install a Windows Insider (beta test) preview. I think it's likely that Apple will offer Boot Camp for M1 Macs whenever Microsoft gets around to shipping Windows 11 for ARM in a non-beta form.
- CharlesW 5y ago
  > You can run Windows 11 for ARM via Parallels, but it's bleeding edge; you have to install a Windows Insider (beta test) preview. That was before Windows 11 was released. According to Parallels*, now you can just install normal Windows 11 releases. * https://www.parallels.com/blogs/windows-11-tpm/ https://www.parallels.com/blogs/windows-11-tpm/
StevePerkins 5y ago
I can think of few things other than (1) games, or (2) very old "enterprise" business software, that are 100% Windows-only today. For the TINY amount of PC gaming that I do, I have an older Lenovo laptop laying around that suits my occasional needs. If I didn't have that, I'd probably buy an Intel NUC to use as my reverse-Mac-mini. For business software, I assume that if I had a need for that, then my employer would issue me a PC instead of a MBP. I dunno, I've been at Mac shops for a decade now. So, yeah. I'm sure that Boot Camp is still a thing for some people. But I think it's like an optical drive or a headphone jack. The vast majority today will never notice that it's gone.
- marvin 5y ago
  Maybe you have some sort of weird proprietary lab software or such. There's a piece of portable sensor hardware I'm currently looking at, which needs to be attached to a computer and AFAIK only talks to Windows software. There's thousands of use cases like this. It's not that your life stops if you're suddenly unable to run Windows on your daily driver, and "most" people only use the web browser anyway (why do they need a >$1000 machine for that, by the way?), but these things do cause problems or become a dealbreaker for some people. Sure. Most won't notice or care. But that's sort of true by definition; Apple wouldn't make a product decision where most would notice and care. Most HN users are nerds, we see these things much more often than the majority.
  - pwthornton 5y ago
    This is just a response to your aside comment (the rest I am on board with). Even if you just use Web browsers, cheap computers are cheap and not enjoyable to use. A $500 laptop is a steaming pile of crap. Imagine making your well-paid white collar employers use a computer with a bad screen, janky touchpad, and limited performance just because they don't do anything super intense with their machines? Most work places keep their laptops for several years. Amortizing the cost of that over 2-4 years is not a big deal. Also, a lot of Web apps and Electron app are ram and performance hogs, so getting a cheap computer doesn't make a ton of sense. You don't need one of these MacBook Pros for everyone, but a MacBook Air is worth paying for every employee at my work (or an equivalent PC laptop). But, yes, there is definitely software that is Windows only. Some places ran bootcamp for these needs, but others will get Windows machines just for these special use cases. For some people who like to use Macs, but need one piece of Windows enterprise software every now and then, they may just go with a Windows machine without bootcamp.
    - marvin 5y ago
      I perfectly agree. It's just that when it comes to these points, I am quite annoyed that in the whole world, only Apple seems to realize that UX is a thing that's too subtle to design by committee. In principle, we could have a $500 version of the 2009 polycarbonate Crackbook, which minus the short-lived screen hinges was the point where Apple hit a usability threshold that made it a dream to use a laptop. Since only Apple realizes this, they could demand a ridiculous UX premium even if they offered a laptop today with 2009-level hardware. But hey, I suppose modern JavaScript on the web kills the hope of being able to use it with old hardware anyway, eh :P And those of us who care don't think twice about spending >$1000 on a laptop, it's the most important extension of your mind and that's worth the premium.
blacksmith_tb 5y ago
I expect lots of people care, though if it's an option for you VMWare does have a public beta of Fusion for the M1s[1] and I have seen people running Windows (11 even) under it. 1: https://blogs.vmware.com/teamfusion/2021/09/fusion-for-m1-public-tech-preview-now-available.html https://blogs.vmware.com/teamfusion/2021/09/fusion-for-m1-pu...

by in3d 5y ago

Seems like nobody else cares about the inability to run Boot Camp on M1 Macs? There’s enough Windows-only software out there that I wouldn’t want to upgrade my older x86 MacBook Pro.

alphabettsy 5y ago

I haven’t read up much, but virtualization options like Parallels exist. Can’t say how well it works. Personally haven’t needed to use a Windows-only app in years.

dfabulich 5y ago

You can run Windows 11 for ARM via Parallels, but it's bleeding edge; you have to install a Windows Insider (beta test) preview. I think it's likely that Apple will offer Boot Camp for M1 Macs whenever Microsoft gets around to shipping Windows 11 for ARM in a non-beta form.

CharlesW 5y ago
> You can run Windows 11 for ARM via Parallels, but it's bleeding edge; you have to install a Windows Insider (beta test) preview. That was before Windows 11 was released. According to Parallels*, now you can just install normal Windows 11 releases. * https://www.parallels.com/blogs/windows-11-tpm/ https://www.parallels.com/blogs/windows-11-tpm/

StevePerkins 5y ago

I can think of few things other than (1) games, or (2) very old "enterprise" business software, that are 100% Windows-only today. For the TINY amount of PC gaming that I do, I have an older Lenovo laptop laying around that suits my occasional needs. If I didn't have that, I'd probably buy an Intel NUC to use as my reverse-Mac-mini. For business software, I assume that if I had a need for that, then my employer would issue me a PC instead of a MBP. I dunno, I've been at Mac shops for a decade now. So, yeah. I'm sure that Boot Camp is still a thing for some people. But I think it's like an optical drive or a headphone jack. The vast majority today will never notice that it's gone.

marvin 5y ago
Maybe you have some sort of weird proprietary lab software or such. There's a piece of portable sensor hardware I'm currently looking at, which needs to be attached to a computer and AFAIK only talks to Windows software. There's thousands of use cases like this. It's not that your life stops if you're suddenly unable to run Windows on your daily driver, and "most" people only use the web browser anyway (why do they need a >$1000 machine for that, by the way?), but these things do cause problems or become a dealbreaker for some people. Sure. Most won't notice or care. But that's sort of true by definition; Apple wouldn't make a product decision where most would notice and care. Most HN users are nerds, we see these things much more often than the majority.
- pwthornton 5y ago
  This is just a response to your aside comment (the rest I am on board with). Even if you just use Web browsers, cheap computers are cheap and not enjoyable to use. A $500 laptop is a steaming pile of crap. Imagine making your well-paid white collar employers use a computer with a bad screen, janky touchpad, and limited performance just because they don't do anything super intense with their machines? Most work places keep their laptops for several years. Amortizing the cost of that over 2-4 years is not a big deal. Also, a lot of Web apps and Electron app are ram and performance hogs, so getting a cheap computer doesn't make a ton of sense. You don't need one of these MacBook Pros for everyone, but a MacBook Air is worth paying for every employee at my work (or an equivalent PC laptop). But, yes, there is definitely software that is Windows only. Some places ran bootcamp for these needs, but others will get Windows machines just for these special use cases. For some people who like to use Macs, but need one piece of Windows enterprise software every now and then, they may just go with a Windows machine without bootcamp.
  - marvin 5y ago
    I perfectly agree. It's just that when it comes to these points, I am quite annoyed that in the whole world, only Apple seems to realize that UX is a thing that's too subtle to design by committee. In principle, we could have a $500 version of the 2009 polycarbonate Crackbook, which minus the short-lived screen hinges was the point where Apple hit a usability threshold that made it a dream to use a laptop. Since only Apple realizes this, they could demand a ridiculous UX premium even if they offered a laptop today with 2009-level hardware. But hey, I suppose modern JavaScript on the web kills the hope of being able to use it with old hardware anyway, eh :P And those of us who care don't think twice about spending >$1000 on a laptop, it's the most important extension of your mind and that's worth the premium.

blacksmith_tb 5y ago

I expect lots of people care, though if it's an option for you VMWare does have a public beta of Fusion for the M1s[1] and I have seen people running Windows (11 even) under it. 1: https://blogs.vmware.com/teamfusion/2021/09/fusion-for-m1-public-tech-preview-now-available.html https://blogs.vmware.com/teamfusion/2021/09/fusion-for-m1-pu...