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Biden admin barred from firing unvaccinated employees DC judge issues injunction

8 points by SQL2219 5y ago

twofornone 5y ago
Why are we mandating experimental vaccines under threat of termination (and, increasingly, exclusion from greater society) for a virus with a 99.99%+ survival rate in healthy individuals under 50? Can someone please explain this to me? If the vaccines work, give vulnerable populations the choice to get vaccinated. If vaccinated individuals are still so vulnerable that a general mandate is required, then these vaccines are not effective enough to mandate.
- arrakis2021 5y ago
  Your suggestion makes no sense. Without a mandate, how are Pfizer and Moderna going to get paid?
- Arnt 5y ago
  It's only that survivable if you have the option of hospital treatment. If you're the right kind of person, you have >>90% chance of not needing hospital treatment at all. But that still leaves a few per cent, and if you need hospital treatment and can't get it, your survivability is far from 99.99%. Which implies that the hospitals must have free resources (even after they take care of random things like eye operations instead of delaying treatment), which in turn restricts the number of people who can go unvaccinated. It's simple really.
- SQL2219 5y ago
  because fear = control the end.
- jfengel 5y ago
  Can someone please explain this to me? No, I can't. Because if you think that a vaccine that has passed numerous trials, been formally approved by the FDA, and has been used literally billions of times, is "experimental", then I don't think anything can be explained to you. No one will reason you out of a position you didn't reason yourself into.
  - twofornone 5y ago
    This was all done under emergency approval, with typical protocols suspended, no time for long term studies, not to mention a chilling effect from people like you against speaking ill against the vaccines, including reporting adverse effects. The fact that it has been "approved" by the FDA is irrelevant when there has been such an immense political pressure to do so. Not to mention there are now thousands of careers on the line and billions of dollars in pressure to keep up the appearance of a working vaccine. Meanwhile we're just expected to ignore the explosion in VAERS reports, ignore the fact that despite ≈70% vaccination rates in countries like Israel and UK cases are at record highs, ignore that this is indeed a novel technology which induces your cells to manufacture an inflammatory protein which is expressed on cell surfaces (autoimmune disorder potential). Oh and there is also statistical evidence of ADE for strains like delta once the vaccine effectiveness wanes after a pitiful 3-6 months. Suddenly we've also forgotten all about regulatory capture (the pfizer CEO, for example, is the former commissioner from the FDA), perverse incentives (and political pressure) in academia...and on top of that the bulk of safety data came from the vaccine manufacturers themselves...who are also not legally liable for adverse effects. Conflict of interest maybe? >No one will reason you out of a position you didn't reason yourself into I would say the same thing to you, as it seems that so many people have mistaken media propaganda (how often does "safe and effective" appear in reports?) for certainty regarding the effects of a very uncertain novel technology. The fact is that without the emergency of the pandemic, these vaccines would NEVER have been approved. Now mention pharmaceutical companies are trying to push vaccination onto children - when it is pretty much certain that covid is and will be endemic, and that children are not at any kind of risk from the virus. A vaccine which requires others to be vaccinated to protect recipients of a vaccine is clearly not an effective vaccine. So I repeat my question: if the vaccines are effective, and the virus is endemic, why does a mandate for healthy individuals make any kind of sense, for a virus with an IFR and epidemiology comparable to the flu? We've been at this for 2 years. Clearly hospitals are no longer being overwhelmed. Stop and think for yourself for just a moment - our institutions are far from infallible; after all, they are ultimately staffed by humans just like you and me. I assure you all of my conclusions are based on reason unlike your (ironic) appeal to groupthink.
    - 5y ago

8 points by SQL2219 5y ago

Why are we mandating experimental vaccines under threat of termination (and, increasingly, exclusion from greater society) for a virus with a 99.99%+ survival rate in healthy individuals under 50? Can someone please explain this to me? If the vaccines work, give vulnerable populations the choice to get vaccinated. If vaccinated individuals are still so vulnerable that a general mandate is required, then these vaccines are not effective enough to mandate.

arrakis2021 5y ago
Your suggestion makes no sense. Without a mandate, how are Pfizer and Moderna going to get paid?
Arnt 5y ago
It's only that survivable if you have the option of hospital treatment. If you're the right kind of person, you have >>90% chance of not needing hospital treatment at all. But that still leaves a few per cent, and if you need hospital treatment and can't get it, your survivability is far from 99.99%. Which implies that the hospitals must have free resources (even after they take care of random things like eye operations instead of delaying treatment), which in turn restricts the number of people who can go unvaccinated. It's simple really.
SQL2219 5y ago
because fear = control the end.
jfengel 5y ago
Can someone please explain this to me? No, I can't. Because if you think that a vaccine that has passed numerous trials, been formally approved by the FDA, and has been used literally billions of times, is "experimental", then I don't think anything can be explained to you. No one will reason you out of a position you didn't reason yourself into.
- twofornone 5y ago
  This was all done under emergency approval, with typical protocols suspended, no time for long term studies, not to mention a chilling effect from people like you against speaking ill against the vaccines, including reporting adverse effects. The fact that it has been "approved" by the FDA is irrelevant when there has been such an immense political pressure to do so. Not to mention there are now thousands of careers on the line and billions of dollars in pressure to keep up the appearance of a working vaccine. Meanwhile we're just expected to ignore the explosion in VAERS reports, ignore the fact that despite ≈70% vaccination rates in countries like Israel and UK cases are at record highs, ignore that this is indeed a novel technology which induces your cells to manufacture an inflammatory protein which is expressed on cell surfaces (autoimmune disorder potential). Oh and there is also statistical evidence of ADE for strains like delta once the vaccine effectiveness wanes after a pitiful 3-6 months. Suddenly we've also forgotten all about regulatory capture (the pfizer CEO, for example, is the former commissioner from the FDA), perverse incentives (and political pressure) in academia...and on top of that the bulk of safety data came from the vaccine manufacturers themselves...who are also not legally liable for adverse effects. Conflict of interest maybe? >No one will reason you out of a position you didn't reason yourself into I would say the same thing to you, as it seems that so many people have mistaken media propaganda (how often does "safe and effective" appear in reports?) for certainty regarding the effects of a very uncertain novel technology. The fact is that without the emergency of the pandemic, these vaccines would NEVER have been approved. Now mention pharmaceutical companies are trying to push vaccination onto children - when it is pretty much certain that covid is and will be endemic, and that children are not at any kind of risk from the virus. A vaccine which requires others to be vaccinated to protect recipients of a vaccine is clearly not an effective vaccine. So I repeat my question: if the vaccines are effective, and the virus is endemic, why does a mandate for healthy individuals make any kind of sense, for a virus with an IFR and epidemiology comparable to the flu? We've been at this for 2 years. Clearly hospitals are no longer being overwhelmed. Stop and think for yourself for just a moment - our institutions are far from infallible; after all, they are ultimately staffed by humans just like you and me. I assure you all of my conclusions are based on reason unlike your (ironic) appeal to groupthink.
  - 5y ago