7 ms·

Glad he had the balls to step down and call them out. The other committee members and people in charge of the project should be embarrassed as they failed to re

by gt565k 5y ago

Glad he had the balls to step down and call them out. The other committee members and people in charge of the project should be embarrassed as they failed to represent the best needs of the university and its students. Windowless dorms, crazy 97 year old billionaire amateur architect and a bunch of corrupt university staff and committee members who would do anything to save a few bucks. What could go wrong? Humanity at its finest.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
yashap 5y ago
100%. Sure, the billionaire is probably an asshole, but he’s also 97 and not an architect. The real problem here is the leadership at the university deciding to move forward with this monstrosity just to get a big donation.
- goodcanadian 5y ago
  I am pretty sure Charlie Munger is far from being an asshole. He is also pretty far from being an architect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Munger https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Munger https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Munger#Architectural_efforts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Munger#Architectural_e...
  - clintonb 5y ago
    Using your wealth to forcefully prop up your fledgling(?) career seems like an asshole move. Donating funds with some strings (e.g., put your name on the building/school)? Fine. Donating and forcing your amateur designs be used? Asshole move. At that point you're not really trying to benefit anyone but yourself.
- exhilaration 5y ago
  But money! I agree that this is a pretty crazy project, but that's a lot of money to turn down for a public university.
  - xenophonf 5y ago
    The bequest isn't anywhere even close to covering the entire cost of the building, which is what blows my mind.
- indodima 5y ago
  You do not need to be an architect to see that living in windowless boxes (not rooms) will damage young adults psychologically. Just put yourself into this room and try to study for 6 hours a day. It looks worse than a prison cell. This old fart probably has his own ideas about how poor students need to work and live in order to "earn" an education. Not to mention anything regarding virus spreading...
  - asiachick 5y ago
    Millions of people ( billions?) live in windowless boxes (not rooms) and there is no evidence they're damaged psychologically. I'm not saying I don't prefer windows but this kind of statement strikes me as privileged bubble thinking.
  - themitigating 5y ago
    But you do need to prove that statement because you are implying it's obvious
    - comrh 5y ago
      There's a huge amount of research done by actual architects on what makes a building "healthy" for human occupation. https://www.wellcertified.com/ https://www.wellcertified.com/
      - asiachick 5y ago
        There's also an incentive for them to make buildings as large and as expensive as possible as they it affects their income. Certainly I'd argue self interestedly that all living quarters should be as large and extravagant as possible as I'd like to live in a large extravagant place. But, millions (billions?) of people are doing just fine in much smaller places than these self interested architects are suggesting.
        comrh 5y ago
        That's not really how architecture works. There is a client supplied budget and site that multiple architecture firms submit proposals for. Suggesting a needlessly large and expensive building will do nothing but leave you without any work.
- Belphemur 5y ago
  Maybe they're betting on the donor dying before having to start the project, and hope to keep the money ?
  - hnlmorg 5y ago
    If the donor is attaching terms to the donation then I'd expect there will be some sort of contract in place to ensure his terms are met.
    - kylecordes 5y ago
      His heirs might be much more reasonable about renegotiating it.
      - hnlmorg 5y ago
        Maybe but we're now drifting really far into the realm of blind speculation.
colinmhayes 5y ago
What I don't understand is how this shithole costs so much? 1.5 billion for 4,500 residents comes out to 333,333 per resident. It feels like they could probably build normal dorms for that price.
- lvass 5y ago
  This looks so insane to me, I wonder how much building a normal apartment would cost in that area. I'm building a 7000sqft high-standard house in South America for around 200K USD.
  - mapmap 5y ago
    $29 per sq ft is amazing! Have you documented your project? Interested to learn more.
- epistasis 5y ago
  Sadly, that's not over the top when it comes to institutional building. Particularly in Californian costs.
- fasteddie 5y ago
  A new small apartment in San Francisco cannot be built for less than $800k these days, so coming in a $333k per resident is not too surprising to me in a similar high-cost city with a building with a ton of amenities.
  - lbriner 5y ago
    An apartment for $800K is understandable. A small bedroom @ $333K is not. If they already own the building, it is only construction costs whereas buying an apartment is possibly extortionate land or property prices from the current owner, which is purely demand-driven.
    - baud147258 5y ago
      well, it's not just a small bedroom @ 333k, it's the small bedroom plus all the shared spaces.
falcor84 5y ago
Not to dispute any of your arguments, I'm really surprised at your referring to the consideration of whether to accept a gift of $200M as "save a few bucks".
- tclancy 5y ago
  It's $200 million in your pocket at a cost of $1.3 billion out.
  - allknowingfrog 5y ago
    I completely missed that in my first pass. This crazy donor negotiated absolutely authority over the design by covering less than 20% of the cost. That's both impressive and alarming.
- PeterisP 5y ago
  If someone is donating 15% of project costs but with strings attached that make the project more than 15% worse (which arguably might be the case here), then that's not a good deal and should be rejected.
zackmorris 5y ago
Ya I've been thinking about this too, that personal shame needs to play a bigger role today. For example, if I designed a cell phone that wasn't waterproof, I would feel a tremendous sense of personal shame as an engineer. If I took a campaign contribution and voted against the people I my district, I would feel a tremendous sense of personal shame as an elected official. And so on and so forth. This lack of transparency, accountability, critical thinking, personal responsibility, professionalism, etc has given us this bizarro world 21st century reality where one rich guy can soil the lives of countless others in a seemingly impeccable way. To name one undesired outcome of this local optimum in the multiverse of possible realities.. Edit: $200 million is nothing to sneeze at, so nothing against Charlie Munger for that. I do wish though that philanthropists would donate without strings attached, or else it ends up being an extension of their egos.
dang 5y ago
Would you please follow the site guidelines, including these ones? "Please don't fulminate." "When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names." "Eschew flamebait." Comments that consist only of denunciatory rhetoric and add no information are the opposite of what we're hoping for here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful. The idea is: if you have a substantive point, make it thoughtfully; if not, please don't comment until you do. Just in case anyone is worried, I have no opinion about the building or any of the people involved. Moderation like this is purely concerned with comment quality on HN.

by gt565k 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

yashap 5y ago

100%. Sure, the billionaire is probably an asshole, but he’s also 97 and not an architect. The real problem here is the leadership at the university deciding to move forward with this monstrosity just to get a big donation.

goodcanadian 5y ago
I am pretty sure Charlie Munger is far from being an asshole. He is also pretty far from being an architect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Munger https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Munger https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Munger#Architectural_efforts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Munger#Architectural_e...
- clintonb 5y ago
  Using your wealth to forcefully prop up your fledgling(?) career seems like an asshole move. Donating funds with some strings (e.g., put your name on the building/school)? Fine. Donating and forcing your amateur designs be used? Asshole move. At that point you're not really trying to benefit anyone but yourself.
exhilaration 5y ago
But money! I agree that this is a pretty crazy project, but that's a lot of money to turn down for a public university.
- xenophonf 5y ago
  The bequest isn't anywhere even close to covering the entire cost of the building, which is what blows my mind.
indodima 5y ago
You do not need to be an architect to see that living in windowless boxes (not rooms) will damage young adults psychologically. Just put yourself into this room and try to study for 6 hours a day. It looks worse than a prison cell. This old fart probably has his own ideas about how poor students need to work and live in order to "earn" an education. Not to mention anything regarding virus spreading...
- asiachick 5y ago
  Millions of people ( billions?) live in windowless boxes (not rooms) and there is no evidence they're damaged psychologically. I'm not saying I don't prefer windows but this kind of statement strikes me as privileged bubble thinking.
- themitigating 5y ago
  But you do need to prove that statement because you are implying it's obvious
  - comrh 5y ago
    There's a huge amount of research done by actual architects on what makes a building "healthy" for human occupation. https://www.wellcertified.com/ https://www.wellcertified.com/
    - asiachick 5y ago
      There's also an incentive for them to make buildings as large and as expensive as possible as they it affects their income. Certainly I'd argue self interestedly that all living quarters should be as large and extravagant as possible as I'd like to live in a large extravagant place. But, millions (billions?) of people are doing just fine in much smaller places than these self interested architects are suggesting.
      - comrh 5y ago
        That's not really how architecture works. There is a client supplied budget and site that multiple architecture firms submit proposals for. Suggesting a needlessly large and expensive building will do nothing but leave you without any work.
Belphemur 5y ago
Maybe they're betting on the donor dying before having to start the project, and hope to keep the money ?
- hnlmorg 5y ago
  If the donor is attaching terms to the donation then I'd expect there will be some sort of contract in place to ensure his terms are met.
  - kylecordes 5y ago
    His heirs might be much more reasonable about renegotiating it.
    - hnlmorg 5y ago
      Maybe but we're now drifting really far into the realm of blind speculation.

colinmhayes 5y ago

What I don't understand is how this shithole costs so much? 1.5 billion for 4,500 residents comes out to 333,333 per resident. It feels like they could probably build normal dorms for that price.

lvass 5y ago
This looks so insane to me, I wonder how much building a normal apartment would cost in that area. I'm building a 7000sqft high-standard house in South America for around 200K USD.
- mapmap 5y ago
  $29 per sq ft is amazing! Have you documented your project? Interested to learn more.
epistasis 5y ago
Sadly, that's not over the top when it comes to institutional building. Particularly in Californian costs.
fasteddie 5y ago
A new small apartment in San Francisco cannot be built for less than $800k these days, so coming in a $333k per resident is not too surprising to me in a similar high-cost city with a building with a ton of amenities.
- lbriner 5y ago
  An apartment for $800K is understandable. A small bedroom @ $333K is not. If they already own the building, it is only construction costs whereas buying an apartment is possibly extortionate land or property prices from the current owner, which is purely demand-driven.
  - baud147258 5y ago
    well, it's not just a small bedroom @ 333k, it's the small bedroom plus all the shared spaces.

falcor84 5y ago

Not to dispute any of your arguments, I'm really surprised at your referring to the consideration of whether to accept a gift of $200M as "save a few bucks".

tclancy 5y ago
It's $200 million in your pocket at a cost of $1.3 billion out.
- allknowingfrog 5y ago
  I completely missed that in my first pass. This crazy donor negotiated absolutely authority over the design by covering less than 20% of the cost. That's both impressive and alarming.
PeterisP 5y ago
If someone is donating 15% of project costs but with strings attached that make the project more than 15% worse (which arguably might be the case here), then that's not a good deal and should be rejected.

zackmorris 5y ago

Ya I've been thinking about this too, that personal shame needs to play a bigger role today. For example, if I designed a cell phone that wasn't waterproof, I would feel a tremendous sense of personal shame as an engineer. If I took a campaign contribution and voted against the people I my district, I would feel a tremendous sense of personal shame as an elected official. And so on and so forth. This lack of transparency, accountability, critical thinking, personal responsibility, professionalism, etc has given us this bizarro world 21st century reality where one rich guy can soil the lives of countless others in a seemingly impeccable way. To name one undesired outcome of this local optimum in the multiverse of possible realities.. Edit: $200 million is nothing to sneeze at, so nothing against Charlie Munger for that. I do wish though that philanthropists would donate without strings attached, or else it ends up being an extension of their egos.

dang 5y ago

Would you please follow the site guidelines, including these ones? "Please don't fulminate." "When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names." "Eschew flamebait." Comments that consist only of denunciatory rhetoric and add no information are the opposite of what we're hoping for here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful. The idea is: if you have a substantive point, make it thoughtfully; if not, please don't comment until you do. Just in case anyone is worried, I have no opinion about the building or any of the people involved. Moderation like this is purely concerned with comment quality on HN.