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From the perspective of freedom of the press in the United States, the best way for Assange's case to help journalism and journalists exposing state secrets wou

From the perspective of freedom of the press in the United States, the best way for Assange's case to help journalism and journalists exposing state secrets would be for him to be successfully extradited and to be acquitted at trial for his purported crimes. The extradition circus is really just that. The problem is not extradition or venue, it is that under the US Constitution and the First Amendment he should be entirely shielded from any of this, and we need a court to declare that, otherwise the government can continue to use the cudgel of pretrial detention and heavy-handed plea bargaining to continue to punish individuals who expose government acts.

jacquesm 5y ago
Simplified timeline: - they'll never prosecute him - case gets dropped - case gets re-opened - they'll never arrest him - Assange is arrested - they'll never extradite him - Assange flees to embassy and stays there for 7 years - They'll never turn him over the police - Assange is turned over to the police - They'll never extradite him - If they'll extradite him and he'll be acquitted... Sure. Really, if Assange is extradited to the United States he will be convicted and while he is in jail there will be many new reasons found to keep him in jail, in as uncomfortable a way as possible. The US is pretty vengeful, especially against those who make their wrong-doings plain as day. Fortunately at least in a US jail he'll be safe from suicide. Oh, wait.
- andrewla 5y ago
  Don't get me wrong, if I were Assange I would fight this extradition to the bitter end. Pretrial detention alone is an incredibly harsh punishment (and why he won the first extradition case). Despite the US's vengefulness, Chelsea Manning is now free, if not entirely left to her devices, and she's the one who actually leaked the information that Assange is being indicted in reference to. Reality Winner is in a halfway house now. Things are not so bleak as you picture here. Both of them had plea deals, and although Manning was put on trial, it was not in front of a jury. We desperately need a reckoning to decide if we're a country that will imprison people for speech.
  - m0zg 5y ago
    From Wikipedia > Manning said she "accepted responsibility" for her actions, and thanked former President Obama for giving her "another chance" Ouch. That's going to be a problem with Assange, seeing that he's done nothing wrong _at all_.
- beeboop 5y ago
  safe from murder*
nobody9999 5y ago
>From the perspective of freedom of the press in the United States, the best way for Assange's case to help journalism and journalists exposing state secrets would be for him to be successfully extradited and to be acquitted at trial for his purported crimes. IIUC, the charges[0] against Assange are for violations of the Espionage Act of 1917[1] and the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA)[2]. No journalist has ever been convicted under the Espionage Act. As such, it's unlikely in the extreme that Assange would be. The charges under the CFAA are, as I understand it, based on providing advice to Chelsea Manning. Which seems pretty weak sauce for a conviction. What's more, even if Assange were convicted for those charges, he'd face a maximum sentence of five years (with 54 days per year sentence reduction for good behavior). I would expect that any plea deal would include only the CFAA charges and that Assange would be sentenced to time served and immediately deported. I say that because bringing all this up is more of an embarrassment to the US government than it is to Assange. My take is that had Assange not jumped bail and hid out in the Ecuadorian embassy for seven years, he'd have served his time (if he was convicted at all) and would have been a free man for quite some time by now, albeit persona non grata in the US. N.B.: IANAL. [0] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/wikileaks-founder-charged-superseding-indictment https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/wikileaks-founder-charged-sup... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage_Act_of_1917 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage_Act_of_1917 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act [0] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/wikileaks-founder-charged-superseding-indictment https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/wikileaks-founder-charged-sup...
- einpoklum 5y ago
  Your NB should have been "I am not considering the fact that the US has been conspiring to kill and otherwise harm him, and has already engaged in illegal acts for that purpose."
  - nobody9999 5y ago
    had Assange not jumped bail and hid out in the Ecuadorian embassy for seven years, he'd have served his time (if he was convicted at all) and would have been a free man for quite some time by now, albeit persona non grata in the US.
lazide 5y ago
Isn’t part of the accusation that he directly assisted in the actual extraction of the data by providing guidance? If so, I wouldn’t assume he’ll be acquitted. There is also precedent for closed trials and sealed/only presented in chambers evidence in states secrets cases which allow a lot of shenanigans to go on. It’s entirely possible they could railroad him. It’s also possible they couldn’t. Either way if it was me, not sure I’d go willingly back into that lions den after the amount of BS and effort already thrown my way.
- boomboomsubban 5y ago
  >Isn’t part of the accusation that he directly assisted in the actual extraction of the data by providing guidance? No. The accusation is that he offered to try to crack a password to allow an alternative extraction method that would have possibly kept Manning's identity secret. Whether he actually tried to crack the password is unclear, but it's known that Manning did not use the method for any of the documents she extracted. They could still try and railroad him for agreeing to try and crack the password, but Assange did not assist in the actual extraction.
  - lazide 5y ago
    Seems like something they could easily use to try to get him on conspiracy for, even if never used, since having the discussion and providing techniques even if never used is a concrete action in furtherance of. If they wanted to try to throw the book at him.

jacquesm 5y ago

Simplified timeline: - they'll never prosecute him - case gets dropped - case gets re-opened - they'll never arrest him - Assange is arrested - they'll never extradite him - Assange flees to embassy and stays there for 7 years - They'll never turn him over the police - Assange is turned over to the police - They'll never extradite him - If they'll extradite him and he'll be acquitted... Sure. Really, if Assange is extradited to the United States he will be convicted and while he is in jail there will be many new reasons found to keep him in jail, in as uncomfortable a way as possible. The US is pretty vengeful, especially against those who make their wrong-doings plain as day. Fortunately at least in a US jail he'll be safe from suicide. Oh, wait.

andrewla 5y ago
Don't get me wrong, if I were Assange I would fight this extradition to the bitter end. Pretrial detention alone is an incredibly harsh punishment (and why he won the first extradition case). Despite the US's vengefulness, Chelsea Manning is now free, if not entirely left to her devices, and she's the one who actually leaked the information that Assange is being indicted in reference to. Reality Winner is in a halfway house now. Things are not so bleak as you picture here. Both of them had plea deals, and although Manning was put on trial, it was not in front of a jury. We desperately need a reckoning to decide if we're a country that will imprison people for speech.
- m0zg 5y ago
  From Wikipedia > Manning said she "accepted responsibility" for her actions, and thanked former President Obama for giving her "another chance" Ouch. That's going to be a problem with Assange, seeing that he's done nothing wrong _at all_.
beeboop 5y ago
safe from murder*

nobody9999 5y ago

>From the perspective of freedom of the press in the United States, the best way for Assange's case to help journalism and journalists exposing state secrets would be for him to be successfully extradited and to be acquitted at trial for his purported crimes. IIUC, the charges[0] against Assange are for violations of the Espionage Act of 1917[1] and the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA)[2]. No journalist has ever been convicted under the Espionage Act. As such, it's unlikely in the extreme that Assange would be. The charges under the CFAA are, as I understand it, based on providing advice to Chelsea Manning. Which seems pretty weak sauce for a conviction. What's more, even if Assange were convicted for those charges, he'd face a maximum sentence of five years (with 54 days per year sentence reduction for good behavior). I would expect that any plea deal would include only the CFAA charges and that Assange would be sentenced to time served and immediately deported. I say that because bringing all this up is more of an embarrassment to the US government than it is to Assange. My take is that had Assange not jumped bail and hid out in the Ecuadorian embassy for seven years, he'd have served his time (if he was convicted at all) and would have been a free man for quite some time by now, albeit persona non grata in the US. N.B.: IANAL. [0] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/wikileaks-founder-charged-superseding-indictment https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/wikileaks-founder-charged-sup... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage_Act_of_1917 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage_Act_of_1917 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act [0] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/wikileaks-founder-charged-superseding-indictment https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/wikileaks-founder-charged-sup...

einpoklum 5y ago
Your NB should have been "I am not considering the fact that the US has been conspiring to kill and otherwise harm him, and has already engaged in illegal acts for that purpose."
- nobody9999 5y ago
  had Assange not jumped bail and hid out in the Ecuadorian embassy for seven years, he'd have served his time (if he was convicted at all) and would have been a free man for quite some time by now, albeit persona non grata in the US.

lazide 5y ago

Isn’t part of the accusation that he directly assisted in the actual extraction of the data by providing guidance? If so, I wouldn’t assume he’ll be acquitted. There is also precedent for closed trials and sealed/only presented in chambers evidence in states secrets cases which allow a lot of shenanigans to go on. It’s entirely possible they could railroad him. It’s also possible they couldn’t. Either way if it was me, not sure I’d go willingly back into that lions den after the amount of BS and effort already thrown my way.

boomboomsubban 5y ago
>Isn’t part of the accusation that he directly assisted in the actual extraction of the data by providing guidance? No. The accusation is that he offered to try to crack a password to allow an alternative extraction method that would have possibly kept Manning's identity secret. Whether he actually tried to crack the password is unclear, but it's known that Manning did not use the method for any of the documents she extracted. They could still try and railroad him for agreeing to try and crack the password, but Assange did not assist in the actual extraction.
- lazide 5y ago
  Seems like something they could easily use to try to get him on conspiracy for, even if never used, since having the discussion and providing techniques even if never used is a concrete action in furtherance of. If they wanted to try to throw the book at him.