7 ms·

Let's be serious. He wasn't going to get a fair trial by any means whatsoever, absolutely zero chance of that happening. Yes if things were as they should be he

by Levitz 5y ago

Let's be serious. He wasn't going to get a fair trial by any means whatsoever, absolutely zero chance of that happening. Yes if things were as they should be he shouldn't have fled and he would have had a fair trial with the guarantees it implies etc etc. But that wasn't going to happen.

viktorcode 5y ago
Would love to know some examples of Swedish courts not giving fair trial due to international pressure. With links, please.
- monocasa 5y ago
  His fear was not reaching the Swedish courts. Sweden has a habit of colluding with the CIA to illegally kidnap residents off of the street at night, and flying them to foreign prisons that have a more lassiez faire approach to torture. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_and_Muhammad_al-Zery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_an... Britain in contrast makes it's former colony follow it's actual extradition process as a matter of honor. The closest the CIA has gotten to extraordinary rendition in British territory is occasionally allowing a CIA rendition flight to refuel in a far off territory, but even that was a huge scandal.
shadowgovt 5y ago
> Let's be serious. He wasn't going to get a fair trial by any means whatsoever, absolutely zero chance of that happening. We'll never know that and there is no way to know. What we do know is that instead of surrendering to the justice process of several countries, he sought asylum. Any claim that his justice process wasn't speedy has to factor that in.
kspacewalk2 5y ago
>He wasn't going to get a fair trial by any means whatsoever You state your very arguable opinion as some kind of fact. It's not. It's your opinion. The US is a country with rule of law, and this would have been a very public trial with tons of people coming to his legal aid. Even Manning got a fair trial, for a crime that Assange coaxed and encouraged him to commit by the way.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  "The US is a country with rule of law" You accuse the other of presenting subjective opinion as fact, do you think this stament is any different? US jailed an environmental activist for embarrasing an oil company abroad: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/27/business/energy-environment/steven-donziger-chevron.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/27/business/energy-environme... You chance of going to jail is inversely proportional to how wealthy you are: https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article174707216.html https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/a... USA has refused to extradite Warren Martin Anderson, a CEO facing manslaughter charges in India for 16,000 deaths in the Bhopal Disaster In UK criminals kill ~650 people a year, the US police kills over 1200 people a year.
  - kspacewalk2 5y ago
    >for embarrasing an oil company abroad For criminal contempt of court, in a very scrutinized and controversial decision that is freely debated and will be settled case law when it's through the process. >USA has refused to extradite Warren Martin Anderson Citing lack of evidence. >You chance of going to jail is inversely proportional to how wealthy you are: You ability to hire good lawyers is proportional to how wealthy you are. It's unclear what these tidbits are supposed to illustrate. Failing to effectively remedy inequality with pro bono legal aid means your country's judicial system is flawed, and judges make arguable and controversial decisions. This does not mean the country is not governed by law.
    - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
      "Citing lack of evidence." How about the case of Posada Carriles, a terrorist and CIA operative that blew up 73 people on Cubana de Aviación Flight 455, was there also lack of evidence? Do you believe that USA is fair and impartial when it comes to international affairs? If USA blatantly violates international law it claims to uphold, do we have rule of law? "your country's judicial system is flawed... This does not mean the country is not governed by law." Thats exactly what it means, at some point the system is so flawed you are not governed by law. We could debate how flawed it is, but it seems to be getting worse. "For the first time, the United States fell out of the top 20 countries for adherence to the rule of law in an index compiled by the World Justice Project."

by Levitz 5y ago

viktorcode 5y ago

Would love to know some examples of Swedish courts not giving fair trial due to international pressure. With links, please.

monocasa 5y ago
His fear was not reaching the Swedish courts. Sweden has a habit of colluding with the CIA to illegally kidnap residents off of the street at night, and flying them to foreign prisons that have a more lassiez faire approach to torture. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_and_Muhammad_al-Zery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_an... Britain in contrast makes it's former colony follow it's actual extradition process as a matter of honor. The closest the CIA has gotten to extraordinary rendition in British territory is occasionally allowing a CIA rendition flight to refuel in a far off territory, but even that was a huge scandal.

shadowgovt 5y ago

> Let's be serious. He wasn't going to get a fair trial by any means whatsoever, absolutely zero chance of that happening. We'll never know that and there is no way to know. What we do know is that instead of surrendering to the justice process of several countries, he sought asylum. Any claim that his justice process wasn't speedy has to factor that in.

kspacewalk2 5y ago

>He wasn't going to get a fair trial by any means whatsoever You state your very arguable opinion as some kind of fact. It's not. It's your opinion. The US is a country with rule of law, and this would have been a very public trial with tons of people coming to his legal aid. Even Manning got a fair trial, for a crime that Assange coaxed and encouraged him to commit by the way.

ClumsyPilot 5y ago
"The US is a country with rule of law" You accuse the other of presenting subjective opinion as fact, do you think this stament is any different? US jailed an environmental activist for embarrasing an oil company abroad: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/27/business/energy-environment/steven-donziger-chevron.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/27/business/energy-environme... You chance of going to jail is inversely proportional to how wealthy you are: https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article174707216.html https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/a... USA has refused to extradite Warren Martin Anderson, a CEO facing manslaughter charges in India for 16,000 deaths in the Bhopal Disaster In UK criminals kill ~650 people a year, the US police kills over 1200 people a year.
- kspacewalk2 5y ago
  >for embarrasing an oil company abroad For criminal contempt of court, in a very scrutinized and controversial decision that is freely debated and will be settled case law when it's through the process. >USA has refused to extradite Warren Martin Anderson Citing lack of evidence. >You chance of going to jail is inversely proportional to how wealthy you are: You ability to hire good lawyers is proportional to how wealthy you are. It's unclear what these tidbits are supposed to illustrate. Failing to effectively remedy inequality with pro bono legal aid means your country's judicial system is flawed, and judges make arguable and controversial decisions. This does not mean the country is not governed by law.
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    "Citing lack of evidence." How about the case of Posada Carriles, a terrorist and CIA operative that blew up 73 people on Cubana de Aviación Flight 455, was there also lack of evidence? Do you believe that USA is fair and impartial when it comes to international affairs? If USA blatantly violates international law it claims to uphold, do we have rule of law? "your country's judicial system is flawed... This does not mean the country is not governed by law." Thats exactly what it means, at some point the system is so flawed you are not governed by law. We could debate how flawed it is, but it seems to be getting worse. "For the first time, the United States fell out of the top 20 countries for adherence to the rule of law in an index compiled by the World Justice Project."