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From the video: 10. Poor training 9. The job is not what they thought it would be 8. Industry always changing 7. Bored with job, need a change 6. Junk equi

by rascul 5y ago

From the video: 10. Poor training 9. The job is not what they thought it would be 8. Industry always changing 7. Bored with job, need a change 6. Junk equipment 5. Time off 4. Dishonesty 3. Unpaid waiting time 2. Pay 1. Lack of respect

sideshowb 5y ago
11. Hostile environment. Well done Boris /s
- Neil44 5y ago
  He’s discussing the US truck driver situation, seems a little unfair to put that on the prime minister of the UK.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - mschuster91 5y ago
    The mentioned issues apply to truck drivers everywhere in the world. The UK just added that 11th bullet point and is now suffering the costs of Brexit.
    - Neil44 5y ago
      Ah you’re cruising the internet elbowing brexit into every discussion, I see. Carry on.
      - sideshowb 5y ago
        I don't know where you live, but for context, the departure of continental European truck drivers from the UK has been in the headlines a lot here of late; for those who live here the point isn't exactly elbowed in. Though I do appreciate our domestic issues are of little interest internationally.
        celeduc 5y ago
        Chiming in from the Continent <popcorn/>
        makomk 5y ago
        The British media has indeed very successfully spun this to our domestic audience as a problem unique to the UK that's caused primarily by Brexit. I think that says more about the British media than about reality though; the complaints of local truck drivers seem very similar, and the industry here was complaining about driver shortages well before Brexit.
        Symbiote 5y ago
        Driver shortages in the rest of Europe / the world aren't causing problems with fuel availability or supermarket stock. Given similar complains and conditions a few years ago, and that Germany, France etc have since made improvements, but the UK has only added border controls and added barriers to working, it's no surprise that EU drivers left the UK.
        celeduc 5y ago
        I can confirm that it is also a problem here in Spain https://www.elmundotoday.com/2021/10/la-falta-de-camioneros-impide-a-los-espanoles-saber-en-que-restaurantes-se-come-bien/ https://www.elmundotoday.com/2021/10/la-falta-de-camioneros-... and there was a huge backlog in licensing even before the pandemic. (Driver licensing here is a shitshow in any case.) But then Spain didn't tell drivers from all over Europe that they are undesirable and unwanted, create a "hostile environment" for them and their families, and then dissolve our trading relationship with our most important partners. Drivers also don't enjoy gambling with uncertain paperwork, peeing in bottles and crapping next to hedgerows as they wait for endless border queues, so why would they choose those routes when instead they can drive somewhere else where they're not hated, resented and officially unwelcome?
      - Symbiote 5y ago
        Your previous-discussion comment ("If you tag 'because of brexit' onto literally any headline it's instant click fodder at the moment") looks much more like cruising discussions elbowing in Brexit. Neither person you replied to in this discussion mentioned Brexit in recent comments on other discussions. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28917605 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28917605
        Chris2048 5y ago
        > looks much more like cruising discussions elbowing in Brexit Except it was a response to a post that already mentioned Brexit; and "elbowing in brexit" to imply brexit has been elbowed in (i.e. is erroneously mentioned) is a bit different.
redis_mlc 5y ago
There were some truck driving reality shows a while ago that centered around shipping app auctions. The biggest problem was that whether the bid showed who was responsible for loading/unloading or not, whenever the truck pulled up the shipper was like, "Oh, I thought you knew that you had to arrange the loading/unloading." Some of the items were the size of a house, commercial printing presses, etc.
hellbannedguy 5y ago
Lease vechicle in many cases, and pay for any damage.
dym_sh 5y ago
0. Walking out the window is kinda cringe
vincentmarle 5y ago
It's interesting that AI is not on this list... </s> AI might be no longer the hyped up presumed cause of the disappearance of trucking jobs but instead a necessary band-aid to the voluntary mass abandonment of these jobs.
- ryathal 5y ago
  AI isn't on the list, because it's not that big of a threat to what drivers actually have to do. Just driving is the easy/boring part. Without huge changes AI isn't going to manage paperwork, load shifting, securing loads, replacing tires, refueling, and random loading docks.
- eru 5y ago
  We don't have self-driving cars nor trucks yet in the mainstream, but automation has made big impacts on driving already. In manufacturing, of course, but also behind the wheel. Think about how eg Anti-lock braking systems replaced some advanced manual braking techniques. ABS is so common now, that we hardly think about it any more. And we definitely don't view it as AI. Slightly more involved: knowing your way around used to be a big part of cab driving or trucking. The advent of GPS and mapping software has made that skill largely obsolete. You can think of more example, like cruise control or automatic lane keeping, and systems that brake automatically to avoid a crash. None of these systems are AI proper, and they don't eliminate the need for a human driver (yet). What they do is to _deskill_ the job of driving. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deskilling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deskilling for more about that.
  - KennyBlanken 5y ago
    I'm not sure why you're comparing an very logic driven system like ABS to self-driving ("AI"). ABS follows pretty simple logic, comparing wheel sensors (and in more modern cars, additionally: accelerometers and if the vehicle has stability control, a yaw rate sensor aka gyro.) There's little "fuzzy" or subjective evaluations in ABS, there's no need to "train" it, and so on. Also, it's a poor example of deskilling, because ABS was designed to do something humans cannot do. ABS is designed to stop or reduce incidents of uneven-braking-surface induced yaw. Ie, left tire has grip, right tire has less / no grip, which will induce counter-clockwise yaw. ABS is able to stop a car faster than any human possibly could in cases where there's uneven traction because it allows any wheel with grip to keep braking. Modern ABS systems can outbrake a human; older systems were slow and could be out-braked by a driver trained in threshold braking performing a planned stop.

by rascul 5y ago

sideshowb 5y ago

11. Hostile environment. Well done Boris /s

Neil44 5y ago
He’s discussing the US truck driver situation, seems a little unfair to put that on the prime minister of the UK.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- mschuster91 5y ago
  The mentioned issues apply to truck drivers everywhere in the world. The UK just added that 11th bullet point and is now suffering the costs of Brexit.
  - Neil44 5y ago
    Ah you’re cruising the internet elbowing brexit into every discussion, I see. Carry on.
    - sideshowb 5y ago
      I don't know where you live, but for context, the departure of continental European truck drivers from the UK has been in the headlines a lot here of late; for those who live here the point isn't exactly elbowed in. Though I do appreciate our domestic issues are of little interest internationally.
      - celeduc 5y ago
        Chiming in from the Continent <popcorn/>
      - makomk 5y ago
        The British media has indeed very successfully spun this to our domestic audience as a problem unique to the UK that's caused primarily by Brexit. I think that says more about the British media than about reality though; the complaints of local truck drivers seem very similar, and the industry here was complaining about driver shortages well before Brexit.
        Symbiote 5y ago
        Driver shortages in the rest of Europe / the world aren't causing problems with fuel availability or supermarket stock. Given similar complains and conditions a few years ago, and that Germany, France etc have since made improvements, but the UK has only added border controls and added barriers to working, it's no surprise that EU drivers left the UK.
        celeduc 5y ago
        I can confirm that it is also a problem here in Spain https://www.elmundotoday.com/2021/10/la-falta-de-camioneros-impide-a-los-espanoles-saber-en-que-restaurantes-se-come-bien/ https://www.elmundotoday.com/2021/10/la-falta-de-camioneros-... and there was a huge backlog in licensing even before the pandemic. (Driver licensing here is a shitshow in any case.) But then Spain didn't tell drivers from all over Europe that they are undesirable and unwanted, create a "hostile environment" for them and their families, and then dissolve our trading relationship with our most important partners. Drivers also don't enjoy gambling with uncertain paperwork, peeing in bottles and crapping next to hedgerows as they wait for endless border queues, so why would they choose those routes when instead they can drive somewhere else where they're not hated, resented and officially unwelcome?
    - Symbiote 5y ago
      Your previous-discussion comment ("If you tag 'because of brexit' onto literally any headline it's instant click fodder at the moment") looks much more like cruising discussions elbowing in Brexit. Neither person you replied to in this discussion mentioned Brexit in recent comments on other discussions. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28917605 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28917605
      - Chris2048 5y ago
        > looks much more like cruising discussions elbowing in Brexit Except it was a response to a post that already mentioned Brexit; and "elbowing in brexit" to imply brexit has been elbowed in (i.e. is erroneously mentioned) is a bit different.

redis_mlc 5y ago

There were some truck driving reality shows a while ago that centered around shipping app auctions. The biggest problem was that whether the bid showed who was responsible for loading/unloading or not, whenever the truck pulled up the shipper was like, "Oh, I thought you knew that you had to arrange the loading/unloading." Some of the items were the size of a house, commercial printing presses, etc.

hellbannedguy 5y ago

Lease vechicle in many cases, and pay for any damage.

dym_sh 5y ago

0. Walking out the window is kinda cringe

vincentmarle 5y ago

It's interesting that AI is not on this list... </s> AI might be no longer the hyped up presumed cause of the disappearance of trucking jobs but instead a necessary band-aid to the voluntary mass abandonment of these jobs.

ryathal 5y ago
AI isn't on the list, because it's not that big of a threat to what drivers actually have to do. Just driving is the easy/boring part. Without huge changes AI isn't going to manage paperwork, load shifting, securing loads, replacing tires, refueling, and random loading docks.
eru 5y ago
We don't have self-driving cars nor trucks yet in the mainstream, but automation has made big impacts on driving already. In manufacturing, of course, but also behind the wheel. Think about how eg Anti-lock braking systems replaced some advanced manual braking techniques. ABS is so common now, that we hardly think about it any more. And we definitely don't view it as AI. Slightly more involved: knowing your way around used to be a big part of cab driving or trucking. The advent of GPS and mapping software has made that skill largely obsolete. You can think of more example, like cruise control or automatic lane keeping, and systems that brake automatically to avoid a crash. None of these systems are AI proper, and they don't eliminate the need for a human driver (yet). What they do is to _deskill_ the job of driving. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deskilling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deskilling for more about that.
- KennyBlanken 5y ago
  I'm not sure why you're comparing an very logic driven system like ABS to self-driving ("AI"). ABS follows pretty simple logic, comparing wheel sensors (and in more modern cars, additionally: accelerometers and if the vehicle has stability control, a yaw rate sensor aka gyro.) There's little "fuzzy" or subjective evaluations in ABS, there's no need to "train" it, and so on. Also, it's a poor example of deskilling, because ABS was designed to do something humans cannot do. ABS is designed to stop or reduce incidents of uneven-braking-surface induced yaw. Ie, left tire has grip, right tire has less / no grip, which will induce counter-clockwise yaw. ABS is able to stop a car faster than any human possibly could in cases where there's uneven traction because it allows any wheel with grip to keep braking. Modern ABS systems can outbrake a human; older systems were slow and could be out-braked by a driver trained in threshold braking performing a planned stop.