4 ms·

I thought this was already established? I learnt about it from Smarter Every Day: https://youtu.be/Oai7HUqncAA?t=388 https://youtu.be/Oai7HUqncAA?t=388 Here is

I thought this was already established? I learnt about it from Smarter Every Day: https://youtu.be/Oai7HUqncAA?t=388 https://youtu.be/Oai7HUqncAA?t=388 Here is the source they reference: https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/why-dogs-tilt-their-heads https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/why-dogs-tilt-their-h...

pcurve 5y ago
This article has different conclusion that the OP's article?
- wombatmobile 5y ago
  And it documents a different study that uses a different method. It's as if the articles were written about different things.
RRWagner 5y ago
I didn't see where the VCA hospitals explained how tilting gives vertical information that is stated in the Smarter Every Day video. This was fun to see though, because watching my dog listening for movement underground (gophers, insects), and just in general, it occurred to me that a horizontal head position, only gives horizontal direction, but not whether it's above or below. Tilting solves that and 2 tilts, 90 degrees of difference, gives complete directional location. A slight rotation left or right, with one ear more forward than the other, can give range. It's amazing what a few hundred million years of evolution can come up with!
- asxd 5y ago
  It seems obvious in hindsight, but that's an interesting insight I hadn't thought of before. This got me curious about how we can roughly determine if a sound is coming from above or below us even without tilting our heads. A quick search led to this interesting but somewhat open-ended stackexchange answer: > Localization in the vertical plane (elevation) is less well investigated. As far as I know it is the shape of the outer ear (pinna) that transforms the frequency characteristic of incoming sound. In terms of directional hearing it is thought that sounds coming from above lead to a different head transfer function than sounds from below. This means that localization can only be accomplished when the sound has a particular familiar characteristic that is slightly disturbed in the frequency domain when encountered at different angles of elevation (Hofman & Van Opstal, 2003). [1] From this, it seems like the pinna is shaped in such a way that it filters audio differently depending on whether it came from above or below? Can anyone who has more experience with ears confirm or clarify this? [1] https://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/53207/how-we-can-localize-sound-vertically-up-down-and-front-to-back https://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/53207/how-we-can...
  - FeepingCreature 5y ago
    I have ears and can confirm that they're very vertically asymmetric.
  - findthewords 5y ago
    Head related transfer functions are quite well understood. The difficulty is in personalising the HRTF as everyone's ears are different. Sony has looked into it quite a bit: https://venturebeat.com/2020/03/18/playstation-5-mark-cerny-explains-tempest-engine-for-3d-audio/ https://venturebeat.com/2020/03/18/playstation-5-mark-cerny-...
aaron695 5y ago
Smarter Every Day is wrong. If you have kids get them to do the trig for you. Your brain can't tell the difference because of the speed of sound and ear position vertically. It's too quick. I don't see how the brain could ever use Interaural time difference. I think it's fake science. I might be convinced horizontally, but I think it's bullshit. At maximum on a human (a dog is smaller) ~20cm that's .0005 seconds maximum time difference. Exactly 180 degrees (Get your kids to explain the numbers) You need faster than that to get different angles. It's about ear shape and maybe the sound going through your head so you get a muffle on different angles or something, Google it. Dogs with tilted heads are also clearly cute (and studies back this) so we also will clearly breed dogs that tilt heads more. There can be more than one reason a dog tilts their head. We have designed them for a few different purposes and it's efficient to reuse their code.

pcurve 5y ago

This article has different conclusion that the OP's article?

wombatmobile 5y ago
And it documents a different study that uses a different method. It's as if the articles were written about different things.

RRWagner 5y ago

I didn't see where the VCA hospitals explained how tilting gives vertical information that is stated in the Smarter Every Day video. This was fun to see though, because watching my dog listening for movement underground (gophers, insects), and just in general, it occurred to me that a horizontal head position, only gives horizontal direction, but not whether it's above or below. Tilting solves that and 2 tilts, 90 degrees of difference, gives complete directional location. A slight rotation left or right, with one ear more forward than the other, can give range. It's amazing what a few hundred million years of evolution can come up with!

asxd 5y ago
It seems obvious in hindsight, but that's an interesting insight I hadn't thought of before. This got me curious about how we can roughly determine if a sound is coming from above or below us even without tilting our heads. A quick search led to this interesting but somewhat open-ended stackexchange answer: > Localization in the vertical plane (elevation) is less well investigated. As far as I know it is the shape of the outer ear (pinna) that transforms the frequency characteristic of incoming sound. In terms of directional hearing it is thought that sounds coming from above lead to a different head transfer function than sounds from below. This means that localization can only be accomplished when the sound has a particular familiar characteristic that is slightly disturbed in the frequency domain when encountered at different angles of elevation (Hofman & Van Opstal, 2003). [1] From this, it seems like the pinna is shaped in such a way that it filters audio differently depending on whether it came from above or below? Can anyone who has more experience with ears confirm or clarify this? [1] https://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/53207/how-we-can-localize-sound-vertically-up-down-and-front-to-back https://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/53207/how-we-can...
- FeepingCreature 5y ago
  I have ears and can confirm that they're very vertically asymmetric.
- findthewords 5y ago
  Head related transfer functions are quite well understood. The difficulty is in personalising the HRTF as everyone's ears are different. Sony has looked into it quite a bit: https://venturebeat.com/2020/03/18/playstation-5-mark-cerny-explains-tempest-engine-for-3d-audio/ https://venturebeat.com/2020/03/18/playstation-5-mark-cerny-...

aaron695 5y ago

Smarter Every Day is wrong. If you have kids get them to do the trig for you. Your brain can't tell the difference because of the speed of sound and ear position vertically. It's too quick. I don't see how the brain could ever use Interaural time difference. I think it's fake science. I might be convinced horizontally, but I think it's bullshit. At maximum on a human (a dog is smaller) ~20cm that's .0005 seconds maximum time difference. Exactly 180 degrees (Get your kids to explain the numbers) You need faster than that to get different angles. It's about ear shape and maybe the sound going through your head so you get a muffle on different angles or something, Google it. Dogs with tilted heads are also clearly cute (and studies back this) so we also will clearly breed dogs that tilt heads more. There can be more than one reason a dog tilts their head. We have designed them for a few different purposes and it's efficient to reuse their code.