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This is the thing that perplexes me with the people complaining about lockdowns as being some kind of evil government control. Who does a lockdown benefit? Peo

This is the thing that perplexes me with the people complaining about lockdowns as being some kind of evil government control. Who does a lockdown benefit? People going to work creates revenue for the government, people going to shops creates revenue for the government, people going travelling creates revenue for the government. If people aren't paid or aren't paying for goods/services, they aren't paying taxes, which isn't good for the government. In fact while people are at home (at least in Australia), the government has been paying living allowances, which certainly doesn't benefit the government. No one benefits from people staying at home, other than the people who don't get ill.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Markoff 5y ago
you say it like the gov would use their own money for all of this, in the end it's people's money and gov doesn't really care about end result, they don't really care whether you are locked at home or you go to work, because they will waste in the end your money anyway and they have zero responsibility for their decisions besides risking their political future from what I see, politicans in most of the countries are just enjoying their power trip over people (hopefully naively) thinking they are doing the good thing (after all even many/most Nazis really believed in inferiority of Slavs/Jews and thought they are doing the good thing getting world rid of them), in worse case they are hostages of various lobby groups, especially pharma lobby trying to scare people so they can drive demand up and sell more vaccines and drugs and get finance for various research, all of this would not be possible without fight affecting you daily, if COVID would be just another flu as it should be taken (risk groups get vaxxed for their own personal benefits and don't bother anyone else pretending your vaccination is saving anyone) sadly there is significant part of population still buying it, that they are actually doing the good thing, so since they see they still have significant support for doing it, they won't stop and they will enjoy their power trip and stripping our freedoms and basic rights, that's how totalitarian regimes started everywhere - doing the good thing
- credit_guy 5y ago
  > sadly there is significant part of population still buying it I guess I'm part of that significant fraction of the population buying it. So let me explain what I'm buying. I'm buying the idea that freedom is not absolute. "One's freedom to swing his fist ends at the tip of someone else's nose" and all that. One's freedom to be drunk ends the moment they step into a driver's seat. Society has to negotiate curtailments of freedom all the time. In many states, kids can't go to public schools if they don't show their vaccination records [1]. This was long before Covid. When the Covid shot will be fully approved for kids, I'm sure it will be added to the list of mandatory shots, which is already quite long (for example, in my state, immunization is required for 10 diseases [2]). I don't personally find anything worrisome about adding Covid to the list. Now, you could say, you're not fighting for this particular thing, but rather for the idea of freedom in general. I understand that, and commend it. Governments try to expand their reach all the time, but fortunately, we live in a society with multiple checks and balances, and for a few hundred years we've managed to avoid tyranny. But we need to keep being vigilant, and deny the Government powers that is should not have. But, as you said, in the end the Government is nothing. It's "we the people". On the topic of Covid, "we the people" are divided, but a majority welcome the vaccination, and are eager to get to the point of herd immunity, so we can leave the disease behind. On this topic, the Government does represent the will of a majority of the people. When you elect to fight the Government on this one, you are fighting a large number of fellow citizens. And it's fine, it's your prerogative, in the end the Constitution is there to prevent both the tyranny of a king, but also the tyranny by majority. The fact that a majority of the population is pro-vax does not automatically mean it's a just cause. But it does mean that you should give it due consideration, and not assume automatically that we are all just fools who buy all the lies sold to us by some maleficent, shadowy, invisible actors. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/phlp/publications/topic/vaccinations.html https://www.cdc.gov/phlp/publications/topic/vaccinations.htm... [2] https://www.health.ny.gov/prevention/immunization/schools/school_vaccines/ https://www.health.ny.gov/prevention/immunization/schools/sc...
  - Markoff 5y ago
    mandatory vaccination for children is beneficial for children and their health because it protects them from diseases which are actually dangerous for them, COVID is not one of them, same as influenza is not one of them, so you wanna protect morbidly obese and old people by vaccinating children who are unlikely to spread virus to them in the first place and who are basically at zero risk from COVID and just for the record here in Czechia it's pretty sane approach, they can insist on vaccination to visit optional education, but there is no such requirement to attend mandatory education. vaccination is mandatory by law under fines which are not really enforced since you can refuse vaccination for religious or other reasons and state clearly said education is above vaccination mandate, at least in past before everyone went crazy with this disease of old/obese people I don't think majority welcomes vaccination, it's welcomed by people at risk (old/obese) who are protected by it, but the significant majority of vaxxed got vaxxed only to avoid various imposed restrictions and gov blackmailing them into this "voluntary" vaccination, not exactly how is it voluntary if you deny me basic rights like going to restaurants or in Italy going to work, that's not voluntary by my standards, that's like robbing someone with gun and saying he voluntary gave me money, after all I didn't say I will kill him, just showed him gun and herd immunity against COVID/flu, you seriously believe it? you should read more studies, there is no such thing as herd immunity against these viruses, at least not with these inefficient vaccines which don't protect you against infection and transmission at all

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Markoff 5y ago

you say it like the gov would use their own money for all of this, in the end it's people's money and gov doesn't really care about end result, they don't really care whether you are locked at home or you go to work, because they will waste in the end your money anyway and they have zero responsibility for their decisions besides risking their political future from what I see, politicans in most of the countries are just enjoying their power trip over people (hopefully naively) thinking they are doing the good thing (after all even many/most Nazis really believed in inferiority of Slavs/Jews and thought they are doing the good thing getting world rid of them), in worse case they are hostages of various lobby groups, especially pharma lobby trying to scare people so they can drive demand up and sell more vaccines and drugs and get finance for various research, all of this would not be possible without fight affecting you daily, if COVID would be just another flu as it should be taken (risk groups get vaxxed for their own personal benefits and don't bother anyone else pretending your vaccination is saving anyone) sadly there is significant part of population still buying it, that they are actually doing the good thing, so since they see they still have significant support for doing it, they won't stop and they will enjoy their power trip and stripping our freedoms and basic rights, that's how totalitarian regimes started everywhere - doing the good thing

credit_guy 5y ago
> sadly there is significant part of population still buying it I guess I'm part of that significant fraction of the population buying it. So let me explain what I'm buying. I'm buying the idea that freedom is not absolute. "One's freedom to swing his fist ends at the tip of someone else's nose" and all that. One's freedom to be drunk ends the moment they step into a driver's seat. Society has to negotiate curtailments of freedom all the time. In many states, kids can't go to public schools if they don't show their vaccination records [1]. This was long before Covid. When the Covid shot will be fully approved for kids, I'm sure it will be added to the list of mandatory shots, which is already quite long (for example, in my state, immunization is required for 10 diseases [2]). I don't personally find anything worrisome about adding Covid to the list. Now, you could say, you're not fighting for this particular thing, but rather for the idea of freedom in general. I understand that, and commend it. Governments try to expand their reach all the time, but fortunately, we live in a society with multiple checks and balances, and for a few hundred years we've managed to avoid tyranny. But we need to keep being vigilant, and deny the Government powers that is should not have. But, as you said, in the end the Government is nothing. It's "we the people". On the topic of Covid, "we the people" are divided, but a majority welcome the vaccination, and are eager to get to the point of herd immunity, so we can leave the disease behind. On this topic, the Government does represent the will of a majority of the people. When you elect to fight the Government on this one, you are fighting a large number of fellow citizens. And it's fine, it's your prerogative, in the end the Constitution is there to prevent both the tyranny of a king, but also the tyranny by majority. The fact that a majority of the population is pro-vax does not automatically mean it's a just cause. But it does mean that you should give it due consideration, and not assume automatically that we are all just fools who buy all the lies sold to us by some maleficent, shadowy, invisible actors. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/phlp/publications/topic/vaccinations.html https://www.cdc.gov/phlp/publications/topic/vaccinations.htm... [2] https://www.health.ny.gov/prevention/immunization/schools/school_vaccines/ https://www.health.ny.gov/prevention/immunization/schools/sc...
- Markoff 5y ago
  mandatory vaccination for children is beneficial for children and their health because it protects them from diseases which are actually dangerous for them, COVID is not one of them, same as influenza is not one of them, so you wanna protect morbidly obese and old people by vaccinating children who are unlikely to spread virus to them in the first place and who are basically at zero risk from COVID and just for the record here in Czechia it's pretty sane approach, they can insist on vaccination to visit optional education, but there is no such requirement to attend mandatory education. vaccination is mandatory by law under fines which are not really enforced since you can refuse vaccination for religious or other reasons and state clearly said education is above vaccination mandate, at least in past before everyone went crazy with this disease of old/obese people I don't think majority welcomes vaccination, it's welcomed by people at risk (old/obese) who are protected by it, but the significant majority of vaxxed got vaxxed only to avoid various imposed restrictions and gov blackmailing them into this "voluntary" vaccination, not exactly how is it voluntary if you deny me basic rights like going to restaurants or in Italy going to work, that's not voluntary by my standards, that's like robbing someone with gun and saying he voluntary gave me money, after all I didn't say I will kill him, just showed him gun and herd immunity against COVID/flu, you seriously believe it? you should read more studies, there is no such thing as herd immunity against these viruses, at least not with these inefficient vaccines which don't protect you against infection and transmission at all