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Not to worry. Like every other attempt to replace the Internet with a privately owned space for communication, self-expression, and above all content consumptio

Not to worry. Like every other attempt to replace the Internet with a privately owned space for communication, self-expression, and above all content consumption, this one will fail. If it weren't for the inattention to history of today's attention monopolists, we'd really be in trouble.

munificent 5y ago
> every other attempt to replace the Internet with a privately owned space for communication, self-expression, and above all content consumption, this one will fail. I wish you were right, but looking at Internet traffic on mobile devices [1]: * 24% is YouTube. * 10% is Facebook. * 8% is TikTok. * 8% is Instragram. * 7% is Facebook video. * 6% is Instagram. * 5% is Google. * 2% is Netflix. That leaves about 30% for all other Internet traffic, including other large walled gardens like Twitter, Snapchat, WhatsApp, etc. So something like three quarters of all Internet traffic is in walled gardens now. Privately owned communication spaces are some of the biggest businesses in the world today. Note that this is mobile data, because it was the first dataset I was able to find easily. [1]: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-worlds-most-used-apps-by-downstream-traffic/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-worlds-most-used-apps-b...
- Iefthandrule 5y ago
  You are right, but Instagram is on there twice.
  - munificent 5y ago
    Sorry, that's a typo on my part. One is supposed to be Instagram and the other Instagram video.
  - edgyquant 5y ago
    Nope, one of them is Instragram
    - Iefthandrule 5y ago
      Oh right, how could I forget the string-only command line version of Instagram?
- hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
  I don't doubt your overall conclusion that the majority of mindshare is with a couple big apps/sites, but mobile data seems like a very poor metric for this, and it's no surprise that big video and image sites dominate the list. Time spent per app/site seems like a much better metric. I spend a ton of time on HN but I'm sure my overall data transmission would barely equal a couple second video clip.
  - Cookingboy 5y ago
    Man comments like yours really shows how out of touch the typical HN users are. The reality is that globally, mobile now surpasses desktop in terms of times spent: https://www.perficient.com/insights/research-hub/mobile-vs-desktop-usage#:~:text=Globally%2C%2068.1%25%20of%20all%20website,increase%20from%2063.3%25%20in%202019.&text=However%2C%20desktop%20devices%20remain%20very,total%20time%20on%20site%20globally https://www.perficient.com/insights/research-hub/mobile-vs-d.... And it's about 50/50 for the U.S.
    - hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
      I'm not talking about desktop vs. mobile. I'm talking about counting bytes traversed vs. time spent.
    - secondaryacct 5y ago
      If I spend 10 minutes watching a 5GB video but 5 hours reading an ebook, what do I look like in your stats ? Probably more like a youtube couch potato than a philosopher, which would be misrepresentative.
- joegahona 5y ago
  Is this just app traffic though?
- sushisource 5y ago
  And TikTok at 8% is only 5 years old. The point isn't "everyone uses different stuff" the point is "creating new things outside of the existing framework is possible" and I still think that is very much true.
- vineyardmike 5y ago
  > something like three quarters of all Internet traffic is in walled gardens now. Privately owned communication spaces are some of the biggest businesses in the world today. 100% of traffic goes to a space owned by someone. The fact that big companies can dominate profits, and still companies like TikTok can rise from no where is crazy. Just because the internet is not decentralized IRC channels hosted in university dark corner offices doesn't mean that its a true walled garden in the typical sense. I slack my coworkers, and imessaage my family, and facetime my partner, and discord my gamer friends, and use tiktok for entertainment, and use whatapp for my international friends. Last week, i used teams for my coworkers and zoom for my family, and signal for my friends and ... and ... and ... Apps come and go. TikTok is replacing youtube and Disney+ is replacing netflix and signal is (hopefully!) replacing something... While i wish that we actually owned our own servers, knowing that i can quickly change accounts and apps and "gardens" makes it better.
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    > knowing that i can quickly change accounts and apps and "gardens" makes it better That's what the app store diversity push / legislation is about to me. We're in a dangerous place where Apple is hardware locked to a single distribution channel (and its rules) & Android is heavy pushed towards a single distribution channel (and its rules). It only takes a single round of bad legislation to get from there to "Your phone only runs what we say it can run." Ironically, China has more diversity in app stores than everywhere else.
    - vineyardmike 5y ago
      > Ironically, China has more diversity in app stores than everywhere else. Are they all the same 3 apps the government approves of? > That's what the app store diversity push / legislation is about to me. I completely agree and hope apple gets pushed around until it opens up the hardware. I don't care (from a practical, non philosophical level) about APIs or federation or interoperable clients as long as i can just try something new. I have yet to find a single person who can talk with me over Matrix but a dozen who prefer signal.
- contingencies 5y ago
  A depressing statistic. But it's by downstream traffic. So it's heavily skewed to video. Also, Google may include Google cloud (video conferencing/video search/image search/mail/pics/video/whatever).
- personjerry 5y ago
  We might be using the wrong metric. What % of the 20-year old's day goes to YouTube, Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, Netflix? You can add more traffic to the internet but you can't add more hours to your day. Once our attention spans are saturated, that's when things get really hard.
- Smithalicious 5y ago
  Notice how most of these are primarily video and image platforms. Anything which is primarily text, as most of the internet is, would never show up on this scale.
bigodbiel 5y ago
Going by the walled gardens of mobile marketplaces, I don’t think consumers care for freedom of expression, until it hurts their pockets.

munificent 5y ago

> every other attempt to replace the Internet with a privately owned space for communication, self-expression, and above all content consumption, this one will fail. I wish you were right, but looking at Internet traffic on mobile devices [1]: * 24% is YouTube. * 10% is Facebook. * 8% is TikTok. * 8% is Instragram. * 7% is Facebook video. * 6% is Instagram. * 5% is Google. * 2% is Netflix. That leaves about 30% for all other Internet traffic, including other large walled gardens like Twitter, Snapchat, WhatsApp, etc. So something like three quarters of all Internet traffic is in walled gardens now. Privately owned communication spaces are some of the biggest businesses in the world today. Note that this is mobile data, because it was the first dataset I was able to find easily. [1]: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-worlds-most-used-apps-by-downstream-traffic/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-worlds-most-used-apps-b...

Iefthandrule 5y ago
You are right, but Instagram is on there twice.
- munificent 5y ago
  Sorry, that's a typo on my part. One is supposed to be Instagram and the other Instagram video.
- edgyquant 5y ago
  Nope, one of them is Instragram
  - Iefthandrule 5y ago
    Oh right, how could I forget the string-only command line version of Instagram?
hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
I don't doubt your overall conclusion that the majority of mindshare is with a couple big apps/sites, but mobile data seems like a very poor metric for this, and it's no surprise that big video and image sites dominate the list. Time spent per app/site seems like a much better metric. I spend a ton of time on HN but I'm sure my overall data transmission would barely equal a couple second video clip.
- Cookingboy 5y ago
  Man comments like yours really shows how out of touch the typical HN users are. The reality is that globally, mobile now surpasses desktop in terms of times spent: https://www.perficient.com/insights/research-hub/mobile-vs-desktop-usage#:~:text=Globally%2C%2068.1%25%20of%20all%20website,increase%20from%2063.3%25%20in%202019.&text=However%2C%20desktop%20devices%20remain%20very,total%20time%20on%20site%20globally https://www.perficient.com/insights/research-hub/mobile-vs-d.... And it's about 50/50 for the U.S.
  - hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
    I'm not talking about desktop vs. mobile. I'm talking about counting bytes traversed vs. time spent.
  - secondaryacct 5y ago
    If I spend 10 minutes watching a 5GB video but 5 hours reading an ebook, what do I look like in your stats ? Probably more like a youtube couch potato than a philosopher, which would be misrepresentative.
joegahona 5y ago
Is this just app traffic though?
sushisource 5y ago
And TikTok at 8% is only 5 years old. The point isn't "everyone uses different stuff" the point is "creating new things outside of the existing framework is possible" and I still think that is very much true.
vineyardmike 5y ago
> something like three quarters of all Internet traffic is in walled gardens now. Privately owned communication spaces are some of the biggest businesses in the world today. 100% of traffic goes to a space owned by someone. The fact that big companies can dominate profits, and still companies like TikTok can rise from no where is crazy. Just because the internet is not decentralized IRC channels hosted in university dark corner offices doesn't mean that its a true walled garden in the typical sense. I slack my coworkers, and imessaage my family, and facetime my partner, and discord my gamer friends, and use tiktok for entertainment, and use whatapp for my international friends. Last week, i used teams for my coworkers and zoom for my family, and signal for my friends and ... and ... and ... Apps come and go. TikTok is replacing youtube and Disney+ is replacing netflix and signal is (hopefully!) replacing something... While i wish that we actually owned our own servers, knowing that i can quickly change accounts and apps and "gardens" makes it better.
- ethbr0 5y ago
  > knowing that i can quickly change accounts and apps and "gardens" makes it better That's what the app store diversity push / legislation is about to me. We're in a dangerous place where Apple is hardware locked to a single distribution channel (and its rules) & Android is heavy pushed towards a single distribution channel (and its rules). It only takes a single round of bad legislation to get from there to "Your phone only runs what we say it can run." Ironically, China has more diversity in app stores than everywhere else.
  - vineyardmike 5y ago
    > Ironically, China has more diversity in app stores than everywhere else. Are they all the same 3 apps the government approves of? > That's what the app store diversity push / legislation is about to me. I completely agree and hope apple gets pushed around until it opens up the hardware. I don't care (from a practical, non philosophical level) about APIs or federation or interoperable clients as long as i can just try something new. I have yet to find a single person who can talk with me over Matrix but a dozen who prefer signal.
contingencies 5y ago
A depressing statistic. But it's by downstream traffic. So it's heavily skewed to video. Also, Google may include Google cloud (video conferencing/video search/image search/mail/pics/video/whatever).
personjerry 5y ago
We might be using the wrong metric. What % of the 20-year old's day goes to YouTube, Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, Netflix? You can add more traffic to the internet but you can't add more hours to your day. Once our attention spans are saturated, that's when things get really hard.
Smithalicious 5y ago
Notice how most of these are primarily video and image platforms. Anything which is primarily text, as most of the internet is, would never show up on this scale.

bigodbiel 5y ago

Going by the walled gardens of mobile marketplaces, I don’t think consumers care for freedom of expression, until it hurts their pockets.