5 ms·

An interesting interview, it's nice to see a little more substance behind the decision.I also appreciate that the interviewer did ask some of the sterner questi

by gelert 5y ago

An interesting interview, it's nice to see a little more substance behind the decision.I also appreciate that the interviewer did ask some of the sterner questions e.g. Facebook throwing money away from it's business Maybe it's just the years of science fiction talking but I can't help but see this in a dystopian light. I don't want my social world to be created by"Meta". I want to use social media, and the internet more generally, as tools which enrich my life but don't dominate it. Directly opposite to how Zuckerberg pitches "Meta" in this interview. My experience of the pandemic has taught me the primacy of physical, human, interaction. A VR headset isn't going to bridge that digital void. What's more, the internet is already addictive enough, already threatening those interactions I value. I recently read the short story "The machine stops" by E.M. Forster (available at http://www.visbox.com/prajlich/forster.html http://www.visbox.com/prajlich/forster.html ), and I can't help but feel Facebook is building towards the dystopia it presents. I'm deeply uncomfortable with the vast scope of these ambitions. I'm lucky enough to be informed and privileged enough I can choose to ditch these companies but I worry for the many who can't.

billiam 5y ago
Not to worry. Like every other attempt to replace the Internet with a privately owned space for communication, self-expression, and above all content consumption, this one will fail. If it weren't for the inattention to history of today's attention monopolists, we'd really be in trouble.
- munificent 5y ago
  > every other attempt to replace the Internet with a privately owned space for communication, self-expression, and above all content consumption, this one will fail. I wish you were right, but looking at Internet traffic on mobile devices [1]: * 24% is YouTube. * 10% is Facebook. * 8% is TikTok. * 8% is Instragram. * 7% is Facebook video. * 6% is Instagram. * 5% is Google. * 2% is Netflix. That leaves about 30% for all other Internet traffic, including other large walled gardens like Twitter, Snapchat, WhatsApp, etc. So something like three quarters of all Internet traffic is in walled gardens now. Privately owned communication spaces are some of the biggest businesses in the world today. Note that this is mobile data, because it was the first dataset I was able to find easily. [1]: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-worlds-most-used-apps-by-downstream-traffic/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-worlds-most-used-apps-b...
  - Iefthandrule 5y ago
    You are right, but Instagram is on there twice.
    - munificent 5y ago
      Sorry, that's a typo on my part. One is supposed to be Instagram and the other Instagram video.
    - edgyquant 5y ago
      Nope, one of them is Instragram
      - Iefthandrule 5y ago
        Oh right, how could I forget the string-only command line version of Instagram?
  - hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
    I don't doubt your overall conclusion that the majority of mindshare is with a couple big apps/sites, but mobile data seems like a very poor metric for this, and it's no surprise that big video and image sites dominate the list. Time spent per app/site seems like a much better metric. I spend a ton of time on HN but I'm sure my overall data transmission would barely equal a couple second video clip.
    - Cookingboy 5y ago
      Man comments like yours really shows how out of touch the typical HN users are. The reality is that globally, mobile now surpasses desktop in terms of times spent: https://www.perficient.com/insights/research-hub/mobile-vs-desktop-usage#:~:text=Globally%2C%2068.1%25%20of%20all%20website,increase%20from%2063.3%25%20in%202019.&text=However%2C%20desktop%20devices%20remain%20very,total%20time%20on%20site%20globally https://www.perficient.com/insights/research-hub/mobile-vs-d.... And it's about 50/50 for the U.S.
- bigodbiel 5y ago
  Going by the walled gardens of mobile marketplaces, I don’t think consumers care for freedom of expression, until it hurts their pockets.
ootsootsoots 5y ago
I’d like to see a UI that abstracts Wireguard behind contact management UX If I’m connecting to someone via that app it’s over a Wireguard tunnel. On desktop, let me drag files over, append to a synced message thread (stored in SQLite or something simple) Open source design focused on beating desktop operating systems when it’s strength was always networking. All the attention is on building tech for corporations to satisfy political memes. It doesn’t have to be if software people built different software
- invokestatic 5y ago
  I’m not really seeing the WireGuard aspect of this. Sounds like TLS would be fine.
alisonkisk 5y ago
You're missing the point. VR is an escape for people whose meatspace social lives are miserable, like computer networks were in the past.
- sofal 5y ago
  It's also not necessarily competing with meatspace. It's competing with other technologies that connect remote people together where there is no meatspace option. And it's all going to serve the purpose of selling influence over the users.
kurthr 5y ago
They are going to need foveal rendering to achieve the latency/resolution needed. That means they are going to expensive displays and eye tracking, which you might think would add to the price... but eye tracking on that scale is more valuable than any form of advertising information has ever been. It is the gold standard of attention measurement. You can't even control the location, sequence, or time spent looking at different image content. They will know exactly what you are interested in, how much, and when that changes. They will know what distracts you most, and optimize it (for their customers the advertisers). In the end I expect these to be given to high value (elite college students) consumers for free so that they can be monetized. Prepare to explain to your future wife why you always have goats in silk stockings on your feed! Oh, also... compelling Metaverse content?! It will be user created. TikTok to the rescue!
- twalla 5y ago
  Thinking about your comments on eye tracking combined with the weirdo retina scanning cryptocurrency thing Sam Altman is working on is some fun dystopian nightmare fuel.

by gelert 5y ago

billiam 5y ago

Not to worry. Like every other attempt to replace the Internet with a privately owned space for communication, self-expression, and above all content consumption, this one will fail. If it weren't for the inattention to history of today's attention monopolists, we'd really be in trouble.

munificent 5y ago
> every other attempt to replace the Internet with a privately owned space for communication, self-expression, and above all content consumption, this one will fail. I wish you were right, but looking at Internet traffic on mobile devices [1]: * 24% is YouTube. * 10% is Facebook. * 8% is TikTok. * 8% is Instragram. * 7% is Facebook video. * 6% is Instagram. * 5% is Google. * 2% is Netflix. That leaves about 30% for all other Internet traffic, including other large walled gardens like Twitter, Snapchat, WhatsApp, etc. So something like three quarters of all Internet traffic is in walled gardens now. Privately owned communication spaces are some of the biggest businesses in the world today. Note that this is mobile data, because it was the first dataset I was able to find easily. [1]: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-worlds-most-used-apps-by-downstream-traffic/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-worlds-most-used-apps-b...
- Iefthandrule 5y ago
  You are right, but Instagram is on there twice.
  - munificent 5y ago
    Sorry, that's a typo on my part. One is supposed to be Instagram and the other Instagram video.
  - edgyquant 5y ago
    Nope, one of them is Instragram
    - Iefthandrule 5y ago
      Oh right, how could I forget the string-only command line version of Instagram?
- hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
  I don't doubt your overall conclusion that the majority of mindshare is with a couple big apps/sites, but mobile data seems like a very poor metric for this, and it's no surprise that big video and image sites dominate the list. Time spent per app/site seems like a much better metric. I spend a ton of time on HN but I'm sure my overall data transmission would barely equal a couple second video clip.
  - Cookingboy 5y ago
    Man comments like yours really shows how out of touch the typical HN users are. The reality is that globally, mobile now surpasses desktop in terms of times spent: https://www.perficient.com/insights/research-hub/mobile-vs-desktop-usage#:~:text=Globally%2C%2068.1%25%20of%20all%20website,increase%20from%2063.3%25%20in%202019.&text=However%2C%20desktop%20devices%20remain%20very,total%20time%20on%20site%20globally https://www.perficient.com/insights/research-hub/mobile-vs-d.... And it's about 50/50 for the U.S.
bigodbiel 5y ago
Going by the walled gardens of mobile marketplaces, I don’t think consumers care for freedom of expression, until it hurts their pockets.

ootsootsoots 5y ago

I’d like to see a UI that abstracts Wireguard behind contact management UX If I’m connecting to someone via that app it’s over a Wireguard tunnel. On desktop, let me drag files over, append to a synced message thread (stored in SQLite or something simple) Open source design focused on beating desktop operating systems when it’s strength was always networking. All the attention is on building tech for corporations to satisfy political memes. It doesn’t have to be if software people built different software

invokestatic 5y ago
I’m not really seeing the WireGuard aspect of this. Sounds like TLS would be fine.

alisonkisk 5y ago

You're missing the point. VR is an escape for people whose meatspace social lives are miserable, like computer networks were in the past.

sofal 5y ago
It's also not necessarily competing with meatspace. It's competing with other technologies that connect remote people together where there is no meatspace option. And it's all going to serve the purpose of selling influence over the users.

kurthr 5y ago

They are going to need foveal rendering to achieve the latency/resolution needed. That means they are going to expensive displays and eye tracking, which you might think would add to the price... but eye tracking on that scale is more valuable than any form of advertising information has ever been. It is the gold standard of attention measurement. You can't even control the location, sequence, or time spent looking at different image content. They will know exactly what you are interested in, how much, and when that changes. They will know what distracts you most, and optimize it (for their customers the advertisers). In the end I expect these to be given to high value (elite college students) consumers for free so that they can be monetized. Prepare to explain to your future wife why you always have goats in silk stockings on your feed! Oh, also... compelling Metaverse content?! It will be user created. TikTok to the rescue!

twalla 5y ago
Thinking about your comments on eye tracking combined with the weirdo retina scanning cryptocurrency thing Sam Altman is working on is some fun dystopian nightmare fuel.