8 ms·

None of this is the point, though. The point is that Amazon wouldn't have achieved what it has if Bezos was forced to slowly divest control of his company over

by darawk 5y ago

None of this is the point, though. The point is that Amazon wouldn't have achieved what it has if Bezos was forced to slowly divest control of his company over the last two decades. Bezos does not have his cash in hand, for the most part. To the extent that he does have cash in hand, he has already paid taxes on that cash. To the extent that he has not paid taxes on his wealth, he is fully incentivized by the share price of AMZN.

wavefunction 5y ago
>The point is that Amazon wouldn't have achieved what it has Sounds good to me.
- xyzzyz 5y ago
  Fortunately, you don’t get to decide that. Contrary to popular sentiment on HN, Amazon is one of the most favorably perceived brand by Americans, ranked top 4 in 2020. When you go against Amazon, you go against something that Americans like more than Netflix.
  - rsj_hn 5y ago
    This is interesting: https://tenetpartners.com/top100/most-powerful-brands-list.html https://tenetpartners.com/top100/most-powerful-brands-list.h... Apple, Google, Amazon, Microsoft all in the top 10. Exxon way more popular than Netflix.
  - bangkoksbest 5y ago
    > When you go against Amazon, you go against something that Americans like more than Netflix. That just gives more reason to go against, there's quite a few Western comforts that could use a bit more opposition, Amazon being one of them. You're making the case that it is virtuous to be aligned with popular sentiments on issues, which is a position that dissolves any ethical or political principles in the name of conformity.
throw0101a 5y ago
> Bezos does not have his cash in hand, for the most part. To the extent that he does have cash in hand, he has already paid taxes on that cash. What a lot of high wealthy individuals are doing is using their portfolios as collateral against lines of credit. The LOCs give them cash to fund their lifestyle, and they don't have to liquidate their portfolios and take the capital gains charges (at least in the short-term). Someone can have both holdings and cash in this situation. This has been possible lately because rates are so low, so the interest doesn't cost borrowers that much.
- rsj_hn 5y ago
  Pretty sure many in the middle class do the exact same thing. That's the whole idea behind mortgages, auto loans, etc -- to fund consumption on credit and pay the interest with income.
  - throw0101a 5y ago
    For the middle-class, the closest would be a home equity line of credit (HELOC). Reverse mortgages are also a variant of this. Generally though, most 'middle-class loans' have an end date.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - rsj_hn 5y ago
      I think a lot of middle class people roll over their debt, too, no? Say buying a new car when the warranty expires on the old car. Or buying a new house every 10 years (US average). But I don't feel like digging around SCF data, so this is just a hunch. Having said that, my hunch is that middle class households are much more indebted than wealthy households.
    - taeric 5y ago
      I think an easy argument can be made that the standard home and car loans are the same. In spirit, payday loans are exactly the same. Difference is just the volume of money and when the term is due.
micromacrofoot 5y ago
I’m willing to bet he has more cash on hand than we will make in our entire lifetimes… what’s the point of arguing how much it is? the point is that he has so much money that nothing really matters.
- darawk 5y ago
  The point is exactly what I said in the rest of the comment. He has already paid taxes on the cash he has in hand. The only assets he has not paid taxes on are the shares in AMZN that he has not realized the gains on.
  - pnutjam 5y ago
    I haven't realized any gains on my house, but I pay taxes on it.
    - darawk 5y ago
      Yes, but your property tax rate is a much lower recurring rate than the capital gains tax rate. In fact, a tax like that on unrealized gains would probably be a much better way to structure things. You pay 1% a year on unrealized gains until they are realized, at which point you can deduct what you've already paid. I guess this would be annoying to calculate, though.
      - pnutjam 5y ago
        Good news the unrealized gains are in a form very similar to what you outlined.
  - micromacrofoot 5y ago
    sure but he’s got so much he has no incentive to touch it, and it gains all the same… if he makes a 5% return this year, take 2%…
    - darawk 5y ago
andrekandre 5y ago
> Bezos does not have his cash in hand, for the most part. yes, but it works as collateral for whatever cash he may need/want, which means effectively the same thing in the end, no?
JaimeThompson 5y ago
In large portions of the united states people who own homes have their property taxes go up most every year based on the value of their home. Seems a bit strange to me to treat, in this respect, peoples homes differently.
- human 5y ago
  That’s because you pay those taxes in exchange for services from your municipality. And let’s admit it, it’s stupid that your payment is proportional to the value of your house. How is the city budget correlated with house values?
  - JaimeThompson 5y ago
    And they pay taxes in exchange for services as well. And it isn't stupid as if the cost was, for example, divided up equally between all residents a very large portion of them would be unable to live in cities due to the increase in cost.

by darawk 5y ago

wavefunction 5y ago

>The point is that Amazon wouldn't have achieved what it has Sounds good to me.

xyzzyz 5y ago
Fortunately, you don’t get to decide that. Contrary to popular sentiment on HN, Amazon is one of the most favorably perceived brand by Americans, ranked top 4 in 2020. When you go against Amazon, you go against something that Americans like more than Netflix.
- rsj_hn 5y ago
  This is interesting: https://tenetpartners.com/top100/most-powerful-brands-list.html https://tenetpartners.com/top100/most-powerful-brands-list.h... Apple, Google, Amazon, Microsoft all in the top 10. Exxon way more popular than Netflix.
- bangkoksbest 5y ago
  > When you go against Amazon, you go against something that Americans like more than Netflix. That just gives more reason to go against, there's quite a few Western comforts that could use a bit more opposition, Amazon being one of them. You're making the case that it is virtuous to be aligned with popular sentiments on issues, which is a position that dissolves any ethical or political principles in the name of conformity.

throw0101a 5y ago

> Bezos does not have his cash in hand, for the most part. To the extent that he does have cash in hand, he has already paid taxes on that cash. What a lot of high wealthy individuals are doing is using their portfolios as collateral against lines of credit. The LOCs give them cash to fund their lifestyle, and they don't have to liquidate their portfolios and take the capital gains charges (at least in the short-term). Someone can have both holdings and cash in this situation. This has been possible lately because rates are so low, so the interest doesn't cost borrowers that much.

rsj_hn 5y ago
Pretty sure many in the middle class do the exact same thing. That's the whole idea behind mortgages, auto loans, etc -- to fund consumption on credit and pay the interest with income.
- throw0101a 5y ago
  For the middle-class, the closest would be a home equity line of credit (HELOC). Reverse mortgages are also a variant of this. Generally though, most 'middle-class loans' have an end date.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - rsj_hn 5y ago
    I think a lot of middle class people roll over their debt, too, no? Say buying a new car when the warranty expires on the old car. Or buying a new house every 10 years (US average). But I don't feel like digging around SCF data, so this is just a hunch. Having said that, my hunch is that middle class households are much more indebted than wealthy households.
  - taeric 5y ago
    I think an easy argument can be made that the standard home and car loans are the same. In spirit, payday loans are exactly the same. Difference is just the volume of money and when the term is due.

micromacrofoot 5y ago

I’m willing to bet he has more cash on hand than we will make in our entire lifetimes… what’s the point of arguing how much it is? the point is that he has so much money that nothing really matters.

darawk 5y ago
The point is exactly what I said in the rest of the comment. He has already paid taxes on the cash he has in hand. The only assets he has not paid taxes on are the shares in AMZN that he has not realized the gains on.
- pnutjam 5y ago
  I haven't realized any gains on my house, but I pay taxes on it.
  - darawk 5y ago
    Yes, but your property tax rate is a much lower recurring rate than the capital gains tax rate. In fact, a tax like that on unrealized gains would probably be a much better way to structure things. You pay 1% a year on unrealized gains until they are realized, at which point you can deduct what you've already paid. I guess this would be annoying to calculate, though.
    - pnutjam 5y ago
      Good news the unrealized gains are in a form very similar to what you outlined.
- micromacrofoot 5y ago
  sure but he’s got so much he has no incentive to touch it, and it gains all the same… if he makes a 5% return this year, take 2%…
  - darawk 5y ago

andrekandre 5y ago

> Bezos does not have his cash in hand, for the most part. yes, but it works as collateral for whatever cash he may need/want, which means effectively the same thing in the end, no?

JaimeThompson 5y ago

In large portions of the united states people who own homes have their property taxes go up most every year based on the value of their home. Seems a bit strange to me to treat, in this respect, peoples homes differently.

human 5y ago
That’s because you pay those taxes in exchange for services from your municipality. And let’s admit it, it’s stupid that your payment is proportional to the value of your house. How is the city budget correlated with house values?
- JaimeThompson 5y ago
  And they pay taxes in exchange for services as well. And it isn't stupid as if the cost was, for example, divided up equally between all residents a very large portion of them would be unable to live in cities due to the increase in cost.