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My town (~500,000) stopped putting fluoride in the drinking water in Jan 2013. According to the Oral Health 2018 [0] report released by the health unit, the

My town (~500,000) stopped putting fluoride in the drinking water in Jan 2013. According to the Oral Health 2018 [0] report released by the health unit, the percentage of children with tooth decay or requiring urgent care has increased by 51 per cent in 2016-17 compared to 2011-12. [0] https://www.wechu.org/reports/oral-health-2018-report https://www.wechu.org/reports/oral-health-2018-report

DantesKite 5y ago
I wonder how they know whether it’s specifically from a lack of fluoride or because of diet.
- Permit 5y ago
  What suggests to you that between 2011 and 2016 there was a large shift in children's diets?
  - elliekelly 5y ago
    I’m not the person you replied to but the Affordable Care Act implemented a requirement that health insurance plans offer optional pediatric dental coverage for anyone under 18 and IIRC it requires companies offering dental plans to employees to provide options for family coverage and not just individual plans. I recently posted a similar comment in a thread about drug addiction but perhaps it’s not an increase in cavities so much as it’s an increase in access to affordable pediatric dental care.
- SkittyDog 5y ago
  They don't know that... it's an anecdote, not an epidemiological study. But you also have no evidence that diets changed drastically for the whole city of 500k people around the same time... Probably because we don't even know what city this is actually referring to. Maybe all 500,000 people all stopped brushing their teeth... Maybe all the dentists left town... Maybe aliens are dosing the town from orbit with radiation weapons. It's not a useful counter-point for you to just assert some alternative causation... Of course there could be other causes, that's literally always true about any causative assertion.
- Analemma_ 5y ago
  Be serious. You’re suggesting that at the exact same time that this town, and only this town, stopped using fluoride, it is also the same case that this town, and only this town, had a rapid change in children’s diets?
anonporridge 5y ago
As someone with a naturophile mother who grew up drinking nothing but filtered water as a child, I was riddled with tooth decay. So many cavities and fillings that I lost count. Two crowns and one root canal all before my 13th birthday. I believe we also used some kind of natural toothpaste that was probably fluoride free. It's only recently that I connected the dots and realized that never drinking tap water is probably why my teeth are a mess. I'm almost certainly going to have to get implants much earlier in life than I should have. It might be possible to avoid this with proper fluoride toothpaste or mouth wash, but you simply can't rely on most people knowing enough to care or understand the importance of it. For most people, if an issue hasn't personally affected them, they tend to not consider a risk that needs to be mitigated.
gnabgib 5y ago
Two similarly sized cities, one stopped fluoridation, the other didn't, the study shows a 17.6% increase in cavities in grade 2 students[0]. So yes, there seems a benefit of fluoride to children's teeth. Although, better dental hygiene can also do this, and on average cavities have trended down around the world (fluoride in water or not). But that's not what the article is about.. is fluoride dangerous for humans to ingest? (also yes) So given there are more direct ways to get fluoride to teeth (toothpaste - somewhat, varnishes, lacquers or rinses - good), should we continue to cause damage to all in the name of helping young children's teeth? https://cumming.ucalgary.ca/news/calgary-childrens-dental-health-getting-worse-without-community-water-fluoridation https://cumming.ucalgary.ca/news/calgary-childrens-dental-he...
deleted 5y ago
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adolph 5y ago
https://www.wechu.org/reports/oral-health-2018-report https://www.wechu.org/reports/oral-health-2018-report In the 2016/2017 school year, 18,179 children from 119 schools were screened for oral health issues. Between 2011/2012 to 2016/2017, the percentage of children with decay or requiring urgent care has increased by 51%. This is a terrible statistic. Out of such an exact number of children and schools there is no numerator or denominator for the increase of 51%. I suppose a minimum number would be an increase from 100 to 151 and a max of 12,039 to all 18,179.

DantesKite 5y ago

I wonder how they know whether it’s specifically from a lack of fluoride or because of diet.

Permit 5y ago
What suggests to you that between 2011 and 2016 there was a large shift in children's diets?
- elliekelly 5y ago
  I’m not the person you replied to but the Affordable Care Act implemented a requirement that health insurance plans offer optional pediatric dental coverage for anyone under 18 and IIRC it requires companies offering dental plans to employees to provide options for family coverage and not just individual plans. I recently posted a similar comment in a thread about drug addiction but perhaps it’s not an increase in cavities so much as it’s an increase in access to affordable pediatric dental care.
SkittyDog 5y ago
They don't know that... it's an anecdote, not an epidemiological study. But you also have no evidence that diets changed drastically for the whole city of 500k people around the same time... Probably because we don't even know what city this is actually referring to. Maybe all 500,000 people all stopped brushing their teeth... Maybe all the dentists left town... Maybe aliens are dosing the town from orbit with radiation weapons. It's not a useful counter-point for you to just assert some alternative causation... Of course there could be other causes, that's literally always true about any causative assertion.
Analemma_ 5y ago
Be serious. You’re suggesting that at the exact same time that this town, and only this town, stopped using fluoride, it is also the same case that this town, and only this town, had a rapid change in children’s diets?

anonporridge 5y ago

As someone with a naturophile mother who grew up drinking nothing but filtered water as a child, I was riddled with tooth decay. So many cavities and fillings that I lost count. Two crowns and one root canal all before my 13th birthday. I believe we also used some kind of natural toothpaste that was probably fluoride free. It's only recently that I connected the dots and realized that never drinking tap water is probably why my teeth are a mess. I'm almost certainly going to have to get implants much earlier in life than I should have. It might be possible to avoid this with proper fluoride toothpaste or mouth wash, but you simply can't rely on most people knowing enough to care or understand the importance of it. For most people, if an issue hasn't personally affected them, they tend to not consider a risk that needs to be mitigated.

gnabgib 5y ago

Two similarly sized cities, one stopped fluoridation, the other didn't, the study shows a 17.6% increase in cavities in grade 2 students[0]. So yes, there seems a benefit of fluoride to children's teeth. Although, better dental hygiene can also do this, and on average cavities have trended down around the world (fluoride in water or not). But that's not what the article is about.. is fluoride dangerous for humans to ingest? (also yes) So given there are more direct ways to get fluoride to teeth (toothpaste - somewhat, varnishes, lacquers or rinses - good), should we continue to cause damage to all in the name of helping young children's teeth? https://cumming.ucalgary.ca/news/calgary-childrens-dental-health-getting-worse-without-community-water-fluoridation https://cumming.ucalgary.ca/news/calgary-childrens-dental-he...

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

adolph 5y ago

https://www.wechu.org/reports/oral-health-2018-report https://www.wechu.org/reports/oral-health-2018-report In the 2016/2017 school year, 18,179 children from 119 schools were screened for oral health issues. Between 2011/2012 to 2016/2017, the percentage of children with decay or requiring urgent care has increased by 51%. This is a terrible statistic. Out of such an exact number of children and schools there is no numerator or denominator for the increase of 51%. I suppose a minimum number would be an increase from 100 to 151 and a max of 12,039 to all 18,179.