5 ms·

Colin, It seems a great deal of your comments have begun to fall into either the "this has already been posted" or "you're not following the rules" category.

by llambda 15y ago

Colin, It seems a great deal of your comments have begun to fall into either the "this has already been posted" or "you're not following the rules" category. Do you see the problem with "contributing" material on top of material you see as less than satisfactory? You're only adding more cruft to the cruft. We get it. You don't like reposts. We get it. You don't like it when people don't follow the rules to a "T". Guess what? This is what happens. It's the real world where people don't always make the best choice all the time. If you would get over that fact and focus on making insightful comments I think you'd be doing everyone a favor. Lastly, to cite the oft quoted Guidelines: "Please don't submit comments complaining that a submission is inappropriate for the site. If you think something is spam or offtopic, flag it by going to its page and clicking on the "flag" link. (Not all users will see this; there is a karma threshold.) If you flag something, please don't also comment that you did." Edit: here is a list of links to Colin's comments from the first and second page of his comment history where he is either complaining about resubmissions or the rules not being followed: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2902905 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2902905 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2902882 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2902882 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2902745 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2902745 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2901255 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2901255 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2900909 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2900909 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2900877 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2900877 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2899857 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2899857 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2899687 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2899687 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2897109 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2897109 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2896827 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2896827 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2896677 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2896677 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2896311 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2896311

palish 15y ago
1) By not ignoring him, you'd be just as guilty. 2) However, he's not "complaining" about duplicates in those links. He's cross-referencing previous discussions in order to let people learn from them. 3) For what it's worth, he's been here almost two years -- you've been here barely half a year. I read through his history and found this really cool submission: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2878264 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2878264 Computer Graphics? Or Real? "Ultimate Batting Practice" Which led to the analysis of the video: http://m.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/08/exposing-a-fake-video-trick/ http://m.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/08/exposing-a-fake-vide... Which led to another analysis, "Water Slide Jump" http://m.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/05/preemptive-mythbusters-giant-water-slide-jump/ http://m.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/05/preemptive-mythbuste... http://scienceblogs.com/dotphysics/2009/08/more-on-the-giant-water-slide-jump.php http://scienceblogs.com/dotphysics/2009/08/more-on-the-giant... It pretty much demonstrates just how difficult it is to apply mathematics to analyze real-world problems, which is really interesting and thought-provoking IMO. Anyway, my point is, Colin has good taste, and you're doing him a serious disservice. He does good, helpful work, and I hope he doesn't stop, and doesn't straight-up leave, because the community would be worse off. I'd certainly be tempted to leave after reading something like what you wrote.
- MortenK 15y ago
  2) Though "cross-referencing previous discussions in order to let people learn from them" sounds good, if you read Colins profile, he seems quite angry at all this reposting. There is a little to a lot snark in most of those comments (though some really are just links to similar discussions). 3) That should by all means be completely and utterly irrelevant. I think the OP recognizes Colins contributions, but is pointing out that there seems to be a lot of complaining / slight passive aggression in those comments. Isn't that a fair observation to make? I'm not bothered by Colins postings. I sure would be bothered though, if HN turns in to your typical internet forum, where older members starts policing newer members about following the arbitrary forum rules ("use the search function, you dimwit!" style).
ColinWright 15y ago
Yup, OK. I'll stop. Despite lots of people saying they appreciate it, you've convinced me. I won't cross-reference, I won't point out when people break the guidelines, I'll just silently downvote and flag, leaving people - often newbies - with no idea why their contributions disappear or get negative karma. That might or might not lead to still more bewildered posts saying they don't understand, but that's OK. There's no point trying to educate them. Let them learn the hard way. As a mathematician by training, an engineer at heart, and a teacher by vocation, I hate seeing the waste of constantly repeated submissions and the redundancy of split discussions. I had hoped to add value by helping people become enculturated, but I've decided I've failed. I'll stop. PS: Besides, it plays hell with my average karma.
- palish 15y ago
  Just ignore him. Really, he's not worth it, and his behavior shouldn't be rewarded (publicly calling someone out and framing them in a bad light without context). I appreciated your work, for what it's worth.
- llambda 15y ago
  Colin, As civil adults and in all seriousness, would you stop? Do you see why I've complained? Cruft is cruft is cruft. Clearly your strategy to mend the dupe problem isn't having a positive effect. Maybe this is because new users aren't aware of the rules (but there will always be new users) maybe it's because people are willfully ignoring the rule (but in this case why should they pay you any attention?) or perhaps there are a multitude of reasons that all contribute to the gradual decline of the richness of information as a community grows. Whatever the case may be, as a long time reader of HN and a recent user, I find that the kinds of comments you make where you show a post is a duplicate does nothing to increase the richness of the content. Instead, your comment is yet another I have to try to ignore in search of meaningful content. Please don't take this personally. I'm sorry to have called you out like this publicly, but I don't know how else to reach you: please stop.
  - scott_s 15y ago
    As a long time HN reader and contributor, please do not ask other community members to stop helping the community. If I go to the discussion page for a submission, but find it mostly empty except Colin's link to a dupe, I can then read the discussion that happened.
tokenadult 15y ago
That's really a cheap shot after Colin's kind reply to your informational question from just the last month. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2831538 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2831538
- llambda 15y ago
  And I really appreciated that. It was the first time I had read a comment by him that wasn't putting down someone's submission or complaining about there being a similar article. I wish he'd spend more time contributing comments like that. By the way, thank you for your comment there Colin. I truly was glad to see you don't only make comments on dupes.
  - losvedir 15y ago
    > * that wasn't putting down someone's submission or complaining about there being a similar article* You're getting downvotes galore by the folks here, but on the off chance you're not a native English speaker or something, I don't read his comments that way at all. I actually checked through every one of your links posted above and I don't take his comments to be mean spirited at all. More like he's designated himself the friendly community cross referencer. This one[1] in particular, is about as good of a comment as you can get. Cross referenced to other submissions, interesting links raised in the HN discussion, and a comment of his own. [1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2896827 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2896827
llambda 15y ago
All I'm asking is that if he wants more quality he contribute more quality. Yes; I'm doing what I'm complaining about him doing, however I've done it exactly once, how many pages and pages of his comment history are filled with these aforementioned comments?
- ColinWright 15y ago
  I already contribute items I believe to be of quality, both submissions and comments. Ceasing to comment on duplicates and breaches of the guidelines won't change that.
  - losvedir 15y ago
    Oh, wow, I didn't realize it has been you doing all this serious cross referencing to previous discussions. THANK YOU. It has been a huge help to me in the past, especially when I land on Hacker News results from a Google search.
csomar 15y ago
I think it's good to have someone who remembers. I, for example, forget this. I want to provide the maximum value, but I just forgot about it, and when I submit articles I'm not quite careful. His comment made me remember and the next time, I'll be more careful.
scott_s 15y ago
Pointing out where other discussion on the same topic happened, or is currently going on, is a Good Thing. You are confusing helpfully pointing out where more discussion exists as a complaint.
- llambda 15y ago
  The implication of spamming a list of links over and over and over again (paired with the blatant admission in his profile that he mostly doesn't read HN anymore due the amount of dupes) is that Colin is dissatisfied and is trying to make a point which in doing so is only contributing more of what is evidently causing him distress (lack of richness in content); it can't be argued that bludgeoning posters and readers over the head with a wall of links is comparable to real discussion imo. See why I'm having a problem with this? I don't see it as a good thing. I see it as more shit to wade through in order to get to the content I'm after. Unfortunately, it's something I'm seeing more and more often, over the course of the past several weeks... Colin isn't the first person to do this and I believe the consensus before was that ultimately it's a disservice to the community, well intentioned or not. (RiderOfGiraffes had a script that did something similar I think?) Edit: As I can't reply to you directly yet Scott, I'll add this here: "It is not itself discussion, but it points readers to discussions." You understand exactly how I feel! :) You're absolutely correct: it adds nothing to the discussion and is therefore misplaced in the comments. Now if there were a way to add some kind of list of similar or duplicate articles to an article that was independent of the comment threads, I would definitely be in support of this! But as comments, they feel like more spam. :(
  - scott_s 15y ago
    RiderOfGiraffes did it by hand, and he was similarly driven away by what I understand to be a minority of people who did not like the practice. He was our semantic dupe-checker, and losing him was bad for the community. I've explained why I see it as beneficial: it connects related discussions. It is not itself discussion, but it points readers to discussions. So, no, I do not see why you have a problem with it.
LukeRB 15y ago
If you perceive that Colin is repeatedly linking to dupes or calling out policies, isn't that a flaw in the UI and UX of HN rather than him just being a complainer? If someone picks up an Android phone and is confused by what the menu button does, and someone kept telling them that they're doing it wrong, wouldn't we be missing the point? If the user doesn't get what the menu button is, it's not the other person's problem for pointing out what it is; It's the manufacturer's problem for not making it clearer. I, too, see Colin's contributions as helpful, and I wish there was a "mark as duplicate" or "redirect" option so he didn't have to type the same stuff every time.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]

by llambda 15y ago

palish 15y ago

1) By not ignoring him, you'd be just as guilty. 2) However, he's not "complaining" about duplicates in those links. He's cross-referencing previous discussions in order to let people learn from them. 3) For what it's worth, he's been here almost two years -- you've been here barely half a year. I read through his history and found this really cool submission: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2878264 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2878264 Computer Graphics? Or Real? "Ultimate Batting Practice" Which led to the analysis of the video: http://m.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/08/exposing-a-fake-video-trick/ http://m.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/08/exposing-a-fake-vide... Which led to another analysis, "Water Slide Jump" http://m.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/05/preemptive-mythbusters-giant-water-slide-jump/ http://m.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/05/preemptive-mythbuste... http://scienceblogs.com/dotphysics/2009/08/more-on-the-giant-water-slide-jump.php http://scienceblogs.com/dotphysics/2009/08/more-on-the-giant... It pretty much demonstrates just how difficult it is to apply mathematics to analyze real-world problems, which is really interesting and thought-provoking IMO. Anyway, my point is, Colin has good taste, and you're doing him a serious disservice. He does good, helpful work, and I hope he doesn't stop, and doesn't straight-up leave, because the community would be worse off. I'd certainly be tempted to leave after reading something like what you wrote.

MortenK 15y ago
2) Though "cross-referencing previous discussions in order to let people learn from them" sounds good, if you read Colins profile, he seems quite angry at all this reposting. There is a little to a lot snark in most of those comments (though some really are just links to similar discussions). 3) That should by all means be completely and utterly irrelevant. I think the OP recognizes Colins contributions, but is pointing out that there seems to be a lot of complaining / slight passive aggression in those comments. Isn't that a fair observation to make? I'm not bothered by Colins postings. I sure would be bothered though, if HN turns in to your typical internet forum, where older members starts policing newer members about following the arbitrary forum rules ("use the search function, you dimwit!" style).

ColinWright 15y ago

Yup, OK. I'll stop. Despite lots of people saying they appreciate it, you've convinced me. I won't cross-reference, I won't point out when people break the guidelines, I'll just silently downvote and flag, leaving people - often newbies - with no idea why their contributions disappear or get negative karma. That might or might not lead to still more bewildered posts saying they don't understand, but that's OK. There's no point trying to educate them. Let them learn the hard way. As a mathematician by training, an engineer at heart, and a teacher by vocation, I hate seeing the waste of constantly repeated submissions and the redundancy of split discussions. I had hoped to add value by helping people become enculturated, but I've decided I've failed. I'll stop. PS: Besides, it plays hell with my average karma.

palish 15y ago
Just ignore him. Really, he's not worth it, and his behavior shouldn't be rewarded (publicly calling someone out and framing them in a bad light without context). I appreciated your work, for what it's worth.
llambda 15y ago
Colin, As civil adults and in all seriousness, would you stop? Do you see why I've complained? Cruft is cruft is cruft. Clearly your strategy to mend the dupe problem isn't having a positive effect. Maybe this is because new users aren't aware of the rules (but there will always be new users) maybe it's because people are willfully ignoring the rule (but in this case why should they pay you any attention?) or perhaps there are a multitude of reasons that all contribute to the gradual decline of the richness of information as a community grows. Whatever the case may be, as a long time reader of HN and a recent user, I find that the kinds of comments you make where you show a post is a duplicate does nothing to increase the richness of the content. Instead, your comment is yet another I have to try to ignore in search of meaningful content. Please don't take this personally. I'm sorry to have called you out like this publicly, but I don't know how else to reach you: please stop.
- scott_s 15y ago
  As a long time HN reader and contributor, please do not ask other community members to stop helping the community. If I go to the discussion page for a submission, but find it mostly empty except Colin's link to a dupe, I can then read the discussion that happened.

tokenadult 15y ago

That's really a cheap shot after Colin's kind reply to your informational question from just the last month. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2831538 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2831538

llambda 15y ago
And I really appreciated that. It was the first time I had read a comment by him that wasn't putting down someone's submission or complaining about there being a similar article. I wish he'd spend more time contributing comments like that. By the way, thank you for your comment there Colin. I truly was glad to see you don't only make comments on dupes.
- losvedir 15y ago
  > * that wasn't putting down someone's submission or complaining about there being a similar article* You're getting downvotes galore by the folks here, but on the off chance you're not a native English speaker or something, I don't read his comments that way at all. I actually checked through every one of your links posted above and I don't take his comments to be mean spirited at all. More like he's designated himself the friendly community cross referencer. This one[1] in particular, is about as good of a comment as you can get. Cross referenced to other submissions, interesting links raised in the HN discussion, and a comment of his own. [1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2896827 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2896827

llambda 15y ago

All I'm asking is that if he wants more quality he contribute more quality. Yes; I'm doing what I'm complaining about him doing, however I've done it exactly once, how many pages and pages of his comment history are filled with these aforementioned comments?

ColinWright 15y ago
I already contribute items I believe to be of quality, both submissions and comments. Ceasing to comment on duplicates and breaches of the guidelines won't change that.
- losvedir 15y ago
  Oh, wow, I didn't realize it has been you doing all this serious cross referencing to previous discussions. THANK YOU. It has been a huge help to me in the past, especially when I land on Hacker News results from a Google search.

csomar 15y ago

I think it's good to have someone who remembers. I, for example, forget this. I want to provide the maximum value, but I just forgot about it, and when I submit articles I'm not quite careful. His comment made me remember and the next time, I'll be more careful.

scott_s 15y ago

Pointing out where other discussion on the same topic happened, or is currently going on, is a Good Thing. You are confusing helpfully pointing out where more discussion exists as a complaint.

llambda 15y ago
The implication of spamming a list of links over and over and over again (paired with the blatant admission in his profile that he mostly doesn't read HN anymore due the amount of dupes) is that Colin is dissatisfied and is trying to make a point which in doing so is only contributing more of what is evidently causing him distress (lack of richness in content); it can't be argued that bludgeoning posters and readers over the head with a wall of links is comparable to real discussion imo. See why I'm having a problem with this? I don't see it as a good thing. I see it as more shit to wade through in order to get to the content I'm after. Unfortunately, it's something I'm seeing more and more often, over the course of the past several weeks... Colin isn't the first person to do this and I believe the consensus before was that ultimately it's a disservice to the community, well intentioned or not. (RiderOfGiraffes had a script that did something similar I think?) Edit: As I can't reply to you directly yet Scott, I'll add this here: "It is not itself discussion, but it points readers to discussions." You understand exactly how I feel! :) You're absolutely correct: it adds nothing to the discussion and is therefore misplaced in the comments. Now if there were a way to add some kind of list of similar or duplicate articles to an article that was independent of the comment threads, I would definitely be in support of this! But as comments, they feel like more spam. :(
- scott_s 15y ago
  RiderOfGiraffes did it by hand, and he was similarly driven away by what I understand to be a minority of people who did not like the practice. He was our semantic dupe-checker, and losing him was bad for the community. I've explained why I see it as beneficial: it connects related discussions. It is not itself discussion, but it points readers to discussions. So, no, I do not see why you have a problem with it.

LukeRB 15y ago

If you perceive that Colin is repeatedly linking to dupes or calling out policies, isn't that a flaw in the UI and UX of HN rather than him just being a complainer? If someone picks up an Android phone and is confused by what the menu button does, and someone kept telling them that they're doing it wrong, wouldn't we be missing the point? If the user doesn't get what the menu button is, it's not the other person's problem for pointing out what it is; It's the manufacturer's problem for not making it clearer. I, too, see Colin's contributions as helpful, and I wish there was a "mark as duplicate" or "redirect" option so he didn't have to type the same stuff every time.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]