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> they blame the individual for a predatory situation. Wouldn't it be nicer to try to improve the situation, rather than blame the insufficiently techy victim?

> they blame the individual for a predatory situation. Wouldn't it be nicer to try to improve the situation, rather than blame the insufficiently techy victim? Years of being in ecommerce and web development has taught me that there's no getting around buyer beware, it is the price for living in a consumer-focused society. There's always a greater fool, and the people building solutions will always prioritize sales and revenue over virtually all else. Attempting to circumvent this means going bankrupt faster.

revolvingocelot 5y ago
...I know, but it makes me sad. D: I had to leave ecommerce for this reason, basically. On the other hand, 150 years ago educated gentlemen were surely saying this about then-common poisonous, noxious food additives. Somehow, society managed to turn that particular law of the financial universe around [0][1]. I fear we no longer have the strength. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Washington_Wiley https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Washington_Wiley [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_Food_and_Drug_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_Food_and_Drug_Act
- vinceguidry 5y ago
  If there's enough there to enshrine legal principles, sure. That's not going to ever stop consumers from having to be wary of what they buy. Society has to live with an evil for long enough to become aware of the downsides.
  - revolvingocelot 5y ago
    >That's not going to ever stop consumers from having to be wary of what they buy Do you still feel the need to check for formaldehyde and Borax in your milk and meat? How do you accomplish this? I'm fascinated! Is that a bit facetious? Sure, but the point is that there's wary and then there's wary. "Having to weigh cost, reputation, and performance" is not "having to guess which product won't hurt you because there's no disincentive to hurt you". >Society has to live with an evil for long enough to become aware of the downsides IMO "society" already is. Nobody's thinking "hey, lying about whether this chat app is end-to-end encrypted is totally cool and good" after they put their trust in the product and the lie is revealed. I suspect poor IoT security is just going to have to somehow kill and cripple a lot of photogenic people until someone can score political points by writing some laws.

revolvingocelot 5y ago

...I know, but it makes me sad. D: I had to leave ecommerce for this reason, basically. On the other hand, 150 years ago educated gentlemen were surely saying this about then-common poisonous, noxious food additives. Somehow, society managed to turn that particular law of the financial universe around [0][1]. I fear we no longer have the strength. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Washington_Wiley https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Washington_Wiley [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_Food_and_Drug_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_Food_and_Drug_Act

vinceguidry 5y ago
If there's enough there to enshrine legal principles, sure. That's not going to ever stop consumers from having to be wary of what they buy. Society has to live with an evil for long enough to become aware of the downsides.
- revolvingocelot 5y ago
  >That's not going to ever stop consumers from having to be wary of what they buy Do you still feel the need to check for formaldehyde and Borax in your milk and meat? How do you accomplish this? I'm fascinated! Is that a bit facetious? Sure, but the point is that there's wary and then there's wary. "Having to weigh cost, reputation, and performance" is not "having to guess which product won't hurt you because there's no disincentive to hurt you". >Society has to live with an evil for long enough to become aware of the downsides IMO "society" already is. Nobody's thinking "hey, lying about whether this chat app is end-to-end encrypted is totally cool and good" after they put their trust in the product and the lie is revealed. I suspect poor IoT security is just going to have to somehow kill and cripple a lot of photogenic people until someone can score political points by writing some laws.