4 ms·

Truck-loadings-per-hour will increase, but that does not help shrink the buffer if every truck picking up a container also brings back an empty one. Increasing

Truck-loadings-per-hour will increase, but that does not help shrink the buffer if every truck picking up a container also brings back an empty one. Increasing the buffer size is a temporary relief, but clearly the underlying problem is an ever-increasing number of containers (empty or full), or we wouldn't have gotten into this situation. If we could dispose of the empty containers somewhere then this bottleneck would cease to exist - trucks could just haul away containers at max throughput. I gather that it's become harder to ship back empty containers though, and presumably just scrapping them is not a sound solution in the long run either.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
> I gather that it's become harder to ship back empty containers though, and presumably just scrapping them is not a sound solution in the long run either. This is not obvious to me. The same ships are going back to fetch more goods, so why would they want to go empty? Surely the cost of manufacturing a new container is (or should be) less than the cost of putting it on an empty boat.
- daveevad 5y ago
  > the cost of manufacturing a new container is (or should be) less than the cost of putting it on an empty boat. If you can prove that considering all externalities you would win a Nobel prize in Economic Sciences.
- bombcar 5y ago
  It’s time to load. An empty ship may be halfway back to China to get a new (overpriced) load before a similar ship is loaded with empties.
  - jaycroft 5y ago
    Does the port charge container owners for storing empties? Ramp up the storage fee, and voila... empty containers go back on empty boats that would otherwise make the return trip with no load. Container owners will find that shipping them back with a reasonable premium to keep ships around long enough to pick up the empties eventually costs less than storing them at the port. Aside, I'd love to have an empty container on my parcel out in the desert, if there's such a huge glut of empties, why does one in any condition cost $10k, without delivery? If anyone has a source for empty containers for sale at reasonable prices, I'd love to have their contact info.
    - foolinaround 5y ago
      you can find containers for $400 online, maybe even free, if you have a truck to pick up..
      - corpdronejuly 5y ago
        I've been tempted to pay someone to pour a concrete pad and buy a few to try and build a cabin on. With prices that low it's worth looking at.
        bluGill 5y ago
        Do careful research. Many have done that, but the negatives of containers for that purpose are rarely stated.
        ncmncm 5y ago
        Building a cabin on top of containers would seem to resolve a lot of problems ascribed to building into containers.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    I assume a port would be designed to have a buffer of empties (or filled containers) ready to load.
- deleted 5y ago
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- deleted 5y ago
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ncmncm 5y ago
This seems to be why he suggests a place other than the port to dump empties. It would be better to require that the ships carry away as many empties as fit aboard.
- phire 5y ago
  If it's true that ships are refusing to load empties simply because it's more profitable to skip the loading times, then a requirement could actually fix things in the medium term.
briffle 5y ago
Considering the price and availability of steel, i'm kind of suprised nobody is trying to scrap and recycle them.
- someguydave 5y ago
  Probably china uses low quality steel to make those containers. But you could melt containers and they would take up less space to ship back to China
  - bluGill 5y ago
    Or just make collapsible containers. Bolt the corners (where all the strength is) on right and then take them apart. Needs careful engineering work, but it seems like it should be possible to standardize then and then machines at either end can take them apart and stack into a standard container dimension.
- more_corn 5y ago
  Scrapping containers is a terrible idea. We need reuse those containers in 2 weeks. The supply chain is a loop. The pipeline is just stuffed up right now and we need to stash empties for a bit while we unload the ships that are backed up.

lotsofpulp 5y ago

> I gather that it's become harder to ship back empty containers though, and presumably just scrapping them is not a sound solution in the long run either. This is not obvious to me. The same ships are going back to fetch more goods, so why would they want to go empty? Surely the cost of manufacturing a new container is (or should be) less than the cost of putting it on an empty boat.

daveevad 5y ago
> the cost of manufacturing a new container is (or should be) less than the cost of putting it on an empty boat. If you can prove that considering all externalities you would win a Nobel prize in Economic Sciences.
bombcar 5y ago
It’s time to load. An empty ship may be halfway back to China to get a new (overpriced) load before a similar ship is loaded with empties.
- jaycroft 5y ago
  Does the port charge container owners for storing empties? Ramp up the storage fee, and voila... empty containers go back on empty boats that would otherwise make the return trip with no load. Container owners will find that shipping them back with a reasonable premium to keep ships around long enough to pick up the empties eventually costs less than storing them at the port. Aside, I'd love to have an empty container on my parcel out in the desert, if there's such a huge glut of empties, why does one in any condition cost $10k, without delivery? If anyone has a source for empty containers for sale at reasonable prices, I'd love to have their contact info.
  - foolinaround 5y ago
    you can find containers for $400 online, maybe even free, if you have a truck to pick up..
    - corpdronejuly 5y ago
      I've been tempted to pay someone to pour a concrete pad and buy a few to try and build a cabin on. With prices that low it's worth looking at.
      - bluGill 5y ago
        Do careful research. Many have done that, but the negatives of containers for that purpose are rarely stated.
        ncmncm 5y ago
        Building a cabin on top of containers would seem to resolve a lot of problems ascribed to building into containers.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  I assume a port would be designed to have a buffer of empties (or filled containers) ready to load.
deleted 5y ago
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deleted 5y ago
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ncmncm 5y ago

This seems to be why he suggests a place other than the port to dump empties. It would be better to require that the ships carry away as many empties as fit aboard.

phire 5y ago
If it's true that ships are refusing to load empties simply because it's more profitable to skip the loading times, then a requirement could actually fix things in the medium term.

briffle 5y ago

Considering the price and availability of steel, i'm kind of suprised nobody is trying to scrap and recycle them.

someguydave 5y ago
Probably china uses low quality steel to make those containers. But you could melt containers and they would take up less space to ship back to China
- bluGill 5y ago
  Or just make collapsible containers. Bolt the corners (where all the strength is) on right and then take them apart. Needs careful engineering work, but it seems like it should be possible to standardize then and then machines at either end can take them apart and stack into a standard container dimension.
more_corn 5y ago
Scrapping containers is a terrible idea. We need reuse those containers in 2 weeks. The supply chain is a loop. The pipeline is just stuffed up right now and we need to stash empties for a bit while we unload the ships that are backed up.