4 ms·

Some talk about 'building a new port' as part of the solution. I'm thinking that's a decade project and $100B or some such? PoLA tried to expand for a decade an

Some talk about 'building a new port' as part of the solution. I'm thinking that's a decade project and $100B or some such? PoLA tried to expand for a decade and the impact statements got bogged down and nothing happened if I remember right (my sister-in-law was doing the math on the statements)

thrower123 5y ago
I'd like to think that if we declared a state of emergency, suspended all regulations and deployed a couple battalions of Seabees we could still build a port in a matter of months, rather than years. I'd like to think we still have those kinds of capabilities if they were needed, but I'm increasingly not sure that we actually do.
- WJW 5y ago
  Depends on what you consider a "port" to be. Sure, a shoddy good-enough-for-wartime place where ships can dock can be built in a few months. Building a decent container port with proper container cranes, train yards and the software to integrate it all in a couple of months? That capability has never existed.
- _jal 5y ago
  If you can develop the political will to treat the citizens of LA like we did the Iraqis in the second Gulf adventure, sure. Just suspend the rule of law and send in Bechtel behind a bunch of guns.
  - jaywalk 5y ago
    I'm not saying we should do that, but it might be preferable to allowing the citizens of LA to hold the entire global economy hostage because they love their regulations.
    - abduhl 5y ago
      We didn’t do it when it was just a union why should we do it for the citizens of LA? https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/02/how-only-14000-workers-briefly-slowed-down-the-entire-economy/385858/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/02/how-onl...
    - bcrosby95 5y ago
      LA county already has the two largest ports in the USA: Long Beach and LA. Maybe some other region can pick up the slack.
      - jaywalk 5y ago
        I agree, if/when we build a new port it shouldn't be in LA County or probably California at all.
  - xxpor 5y ago
    The feds wouldn't have to follow CEQA if they didn't want to. The whole supremacy clause and all that.
- JoeAltmaier 5y ago
  The cement alone would take years to pour. The giant cranes have to have rail to unload onto, and it has to go somewhere. The computers to control it could take years to program. The harbor dredging and shore upgrades could take years. And its not all in parallel. Maybe an off-shore port? With a floating causeway of rail? To do something quickly requires some out-of-the-box thinking.
JKCalhoun 5y ago
Port of Oakland says hi. Is there a reason it does not get the traffic of L.A.? Or is a 3rd large port needed?
- otterley 5y ago
  The primary reason is that it doesn't have the capacity of Los Angeles and Long Beach. It has fewer cranes, less lot space, and importantly, less rail capacity serving it.
- colinmhayes 5y ago
  LA is a much much larger manufacturing hub than the Bay. Land is also much cheaper. Also I think the train situation is better in LA.
- gamblor956 5y ago
  The Ports of LA and Long Beach (which are neighboring) are the largest cargo ports in the U.S. (#1 and #2, respectively) and collectively handle more than 30% of all cargo shipped to the U.S. Oakland is a dismal #10 on the list, and is 1/5th the size of the Port of Long Beach.
epistasis 5y ago
Yeah I'm not convinced as much by the new ports only being the solution. A big part of the reason that the SF Bay area and LA grew was because of the ports and the rail connections. Setting up a new port in, say, the area near Pismo Beach, might have slightly lower land costs, but it also has far lower value. All those warehouses, importers, all the network of knowledge and people and demand for imports, all the stuff that's real but maybe difficult to see, that's the magic that really makes a port have high value.
- bluGill 5y ago
  some areas of coast line are naturally better for ports than others. You need the land to have deep water as close to the coast as you can. I don't know the geography of CA well enough to comment on Pismo Beach, but I wouldn't be surprised if it would be more expensive to open a port there than to buy land in LA.
darkarmani 5y ago
I think talking about the price of a new port, reveals how important it is to use the existing ones efficiently.

thrower123 5y ago

I'd like to think that if we declared a state of emergency, suspended all regulations and deployed a couple battalions of Seabees we could still build a port in a matter of months, rather than years. I'd like to think we still have those kinds of capabilities if they were needed, but I'm increasingly not sure that we actually do.

WJW 5y ago
Depends on what you consider a "port" to be. Sure, a shoddy good-enough-for-wartime place where ships can dock can be built in a few months. Building a decent container port with proper container cranes, train yards and the software to integrate it all in a couple of months? That capability has never existed.
_jal 5y ago
If you can develop the political will to treat the citizens of LA like we did the Iraqis in the second Gulf adventure, sure. Just suspend the rule of law and send in Bechtel behind a bunch of guns.
- jaywalk 5y ago
  I'm not saying we should do that, but it might be preferable to allowing the citizens of LA to hold the entire global economy hostage because they love their regulations.
  - abduhl 5y ago
    We didn’t do it when it was just a union why should we do it for the citizens of LA? https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/02/how-only-14000-workers-briefly-slowed-down-the-entire-economy/385858/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/02/how-onl...
  - bcrosby95 5y ago
    LA county already has the two largest ports in the USA: Long Beach and LA. Maybe some other region can pick up the slack.
    - jaywalk 5y ago
      I agree, if/when we build a new port it shouldn't be in LA County or probably California at all.
- xxpor 5y ago
  The feds wouldn't have to follow CEQA if they didn't want to. The whole supremacy clause and all that.
JoeAltmaier 5y ago
The cement alone would take years to pour. The giant cranes have to have rail to unload onto, and it has to go somewhere. The computers to control it could take years to program. The harbor dredging and shore upgrades could take years. And its not all in parallel. Maybe an off-shore port? With a floating causeway of rail? To do something quickly requires some out-of-the-box thinking.

JKCalhoun 5y ago

Port of Oakland says hi. Is there a reason it does not get the traffic of L.A.? Or is a 3rd large port needed?

otterley 5y ago
The primary reason is that it doesn't have the capacity of Los Angeles and Long Beach. It has fewer cranes, less lot space, and importantly, less rail capacity serving it.
colinmhayes 5y ago
LA is a much much larger manufacturing hub than the Bay. Land is also much cheaper. Also I think the train situation is better in LA.
gamblor956 5y ago
The Ports of LA and Long Beach (which are neighboring) are the largest cargo ports in the U.S. (#1 and #2, respectively) and collectively handle more than 30% of all cargo shipped to the U.S. Oakland is a dismal #10 on the list, and is 1/5th the size of the Port of Long Beach.

epistasis 5y ago

Yeah I'm not convinced as much by the new ports only being the solution. A big part of the reason that the SF Bay area and LA grew was because of the ports and the rail connections. Setting up a new port in, say, the area near Pismo Beach, might have slightly lower land costs, but it also has far lower value. All those warehouses, importers, all the network of knowledge and people and demand for imports, all the stuff that's real but maybe difficult to see, that's the magic that really makes a port have high value.

bluGill 5y ago
some areas of coast line are naturally better for ports than others. You need the land to have deep water as close to the coast as you can. I don't know the geography of CA well enough to comment on Pismo Beach, but I wouldn't be surprised if it would be more expensive to open a port there than to buy land in LA.

darkarmani 5y ago

I think talking about the price of a new port, reveals how important it is to use the existing ones efficiently.