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This is simply unsubstantiated — there's absolutely no reason to believe Cloudflare won't play ball with authorities. If anything, ISP DNS being a distributed

by cnst 5y ago

This is simply unsubstantiated — there's absolutely no reason to believe Cloudflare won't play ball with authorities. If anything, ISP DNS being a distributed system with independent ISPs all across the world, it would be much more difficult for the major agencies to control all the individual ISPs than it would be to simply control a single global entity with a US HQ and offices and POPs worldwide — Cloudflare.

tomnipotent 5y ago
DNS is distributed, by design. Your ISP operates no differently than Cloudflare, and receives routing information from peers in the exact same way. There is nothing special or unique about consumer ISP-provided DNS. A DNS provider is either the definitive source and the buck stops there for a lookup, or it forwards to a peer for resolution. Cloudflare is not a telecom, which comes with regulation baggage that can be enforced. This matters a lot to a subpoena.
Brybry 5y ago
They certainly make better privacy commitments and have more transparency than my ISP. Cloudflare DNS supports DNS-over-HTTPS and DNS-over-TLS. Cloudflare DNS claims to anonymize IPs in logs and only retain anonymized logs for 25 hours.[1] Cloudflare has warrant canaries[2] and publishes transparency reports[3]. Many (most?) of us do not have more than one to two choices for an ISP. Voting with our wallet is not possible and doesn't even make sense for DNS. I agree that centralizing under Cloudflare is unideal and I would gladly switch back to my ISP's DNS servers if they provided the same level of service and made similar commitments. [1] https://blog.cloudflare.com/announcing-the-results-of-the-1-1-1-1-public-dns-resolver-privacy-examination/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/announcing-the-results-of-the-1-... [2] https://www.cloudflare.com/learning/privacy/what-is-warrant-canary/ https://www.cloudflare.com/learning/privacy/what-is-warrant-... [3] https://www.cloudflare.com/transparency/ https://www.cloudflare.com/transparency/

by cnst 5y ago

tomnipotent 5y ago

DNS is distributed, by design. Your ISP operates no differently than Cloudflare, and receives routing information from peers in the exact same way. There is nothing special or unique about consumer ISP-provided DNS. A DNS provider is either the definitive source and the buck stops there for a lookup, or it forwards to a peer for resolution. Cloudflare is not a telecom, which comes with regulation baggage that can be enforced. This matters a lot to a subpoena.

Brybry 5y ago

They certainly make better privacy commitments and have more transparency than my ISP. Cloudflare DNS supports DNS-over-HTTPS and DNS-over-TLS. Cloudflare DNS claims to anonymize IPs in logs and only retain anonymized logs for 25 hours.[1] Cloudflare has warrant canaries[2] and publishes transparency reports[3]. Many (most?) of us do not have more than one to two choices for an ISP. Voting with our wallet is not possible and doesn't even make sense for DNS. I agree that centralizing under Cloudflare is unideal and I would gladly switch back to my ISP's DNS servers if they provided the same level of service and made similar commitments. [1] https://blog.cloudflare.com/announcing-the-results-of-the-1-1-1-1-public-dns-resolver-privacy-examination/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/announcing-the-results-of-the-1-... [2] https://www.cloudflare.com/learning/privacy/what-is-warrant-canary/ https://www.cloudflare.com/learning/privacy/what-is-warrant-... [3] https://www.cloudflare.com/transparency/ https://www.cloudflare.com/transparency/