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I think Biden is a pretty moderate Obama style neo-liberal, but that's not really true of Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, or a lot of representatives in congr

I think Biden is a pretty moderate Obama style neo-liberal, but that's not really true of Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, or a lot of representatives in congress. I'm happy Biden won and I voted for him (well I voted for Bloomberg in the primary before it was obvious who would win and then Biden in the general), but it was looking scary there for a while. The democratic party is definitely more moderate compared to republicans (where all but a tiny handful are just trump loyalists), but that's a pretty low bar - they still have a lot of policies I don't like in addition to the woke stuff. Obviously this is a super flame-bait topic probably not good for HN so I'll leave it here. I just wish there could be principled discussion and legislating without tribal craziness. America is healthier with two reasonable parties to balance each other out.

wolverine876 5y ago
> that's not really true of Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, or a lot of representatives in congress We can cite a few examples, but the great majority of elected Democrats, including the most powerful one (Biden) are centrists. > The democratic party is definitely more moderate compared to republicans (where all but a tiny handful are just trump loyalists), but that's a pretty low bar - they still have a lot of policies I don't like in addition to the woke stuff. If by 'moderate' you mean, 'between the current partisan positions', then moderate is just a different kind of partisan, one who makes choices by (bizarrely) navigating between what other people say. But if we mean, 'non-partisan', let's evaluate policies based on their consequences, not based on what partisan rhetoric and positioning they've been tagged with. IME, many moderates are the former (to be clear, I have no idea about you) - they are afraid of the conflict imposed mostly by the neo-reactionary right (which now runs the GOP), so they go along on reactionary commentary (attacking 'woke' people) because it's safe - the progressives have little power to threaten them - and then quietly object to some reactionary policies.
- gonehome 5y ago
  I’d like to think I mean “non-partisan”. One thing that keeps me honest there is that I hold positions across the political spectrum (not all in the center) - usually this makes partisans uncomfortable because they don’t know which “camp” I’m in. I think dismissing the anti-woke stuff in the way you do isn’t an accurate portrayal, sure partisanship is definitely motivating some but not all (not me) - it’s because I think it’s genuinely bad policy. I’m not making a false equivalence either - the trump stuff is awful and a lot worse. Which is why I wish there was a sane center-right party.
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    > I think dismissing the anti-woke stuff in the way you do isn’t an accurate portrayal, sure partisanship is definitely motivating some but not all (not me) - it’s because I think it’s genuinely bad policy. I think either favoring 'woke' or being 'anti-woke' is partisanship. It's applying a label and dismissing it. The non-partisan thing is to look at each policy, regardless of labels applied by others. Even using the term is arguably (and arguably unintentionally) partisan - it adds nothing to the analysis and even works against it: It encourages inflames partisanship, which is a cancer.
    - gonehome 5y ago
      Yeah - I agree generally generic terms like that make discussion worse.

wolverine876 5y ago

> that's not really true of Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, or a lot of representatives in congress We can cite a few examples, but the great majority of elected Democrats, including the most powerful one (Biden) are centrists. > The democratic party is definitely more moderate compared to republicans (where all but a tiny handful are just trump loyalists), but that's a pretty low bar - they still have a lot of policies I don't like in addition to the woke stuff. If by 'moderate' you mean, 'between the current partisan positions', then moderate is just a different kind of partisan, one who makes choices by (bizarrely) navigating between what other people say. But if we mean, 'non-partisan', let's evaluate policies based on their consequences, not based on what partisan rhetoric and positioning they've been tagged with. IME, many moderates are the former (to be clear, I have no idea about you) - they are afraid of the conflict imposed mostly by the neo-reactionary right (which now runs the GOP), so they go along on reactionary commentary (attacking 'woke' people) because it's safe - the progressives have little power to threaten them - and then quietly object to some reactionary policies.

gonehome 5y ago
I’d like to think I mean “non-partisan”. One thing that keeps me honest there is that I hold positions across the political spectrum (not all in the center) - usually this makes partisans uncomfortable because they don’t know which “camp” I’m in. I think dismissing the anti-woke stuff in the way you do isn’t an accurate portrayal, sure partisanship is definitely motivating some but not all (not me) - it’s because I think it’s genuinely bad policy. I’m not making a false equivalence either - the trump stuff is awful and a lot worse. Which is why I wish there was a sane center-right party.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  > I think dismissing the anti-woke stuff in the way you do isn’t an accurate portrayal, sure partisanship is definitely motivating some but not all (not me) - it’s because I think it’s genuinely bad policy. I think either favoring 'woke' or being 'anti-woke' is partisanship. It's applying a label and dismissing it. The non-partisan thing is to look at each policy, regardless of labels applied by others. Even using the term is arguably (and arguably unintentionally) partisan - it adds nothing to the analysis and even works against it: It encourages inflames partisanship, which is a cancer.
  - gonehome 5y ago
    Yeah - I agree generally generic terms like that make discussion worse.