5 ms·

This is an excellent example of why inferring causation from an observed correlation requires great care. Note that the study did not randomly assign valedictio

by suchow 5y ago

This is an excellent example of why inferring causation from an observed correlation requires great care. Note that the study did not randomly assign valedictions to emails and observe the causal impact on response rate. Rather, they observed a correlation between the sign-off chosen and the response rate. "Thanks" garners many responses because people use it in emails that make reasonable requests with a good chance of response. My favorite valediction is still "I am, &c.," which is short for "I am your humble and obedient servant". Not sure whether my colleagues appreciate it as much as I do...

ineedasername 5y ago
>"I am, &c.," I've never heard that before, is it cultural/regional? (Compared to US)
- happytoexplain 5y ago
  I've only seen it from Americans, actually (though I am one, so not much evidence that it is strictly American).
- klodolph 5y ago
  It is archaic.
- tkgally 5y ago
  Samuel Johnson, among others in 18th-century Britain, used it: https://archive.org/details/lettersjohnson01hilluoft/page/n223/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/lettersjohnson01hilluoft/page/n2...
LeoPanthera 5y ago
"&c" is the archaic form of "etc", the ampersand being a ligature of "et" - Latin for "and". As far as I can tell the "&c." version was popularized by the 1944 novel "Anna and the King of Siam". So it literally means "I am, etc.", which I assume only expands to "I am your humble and obedient servant" in a humorous way. Might be taken the wrong way.
- happytoexplain 5y ago
  I think humorously is the intended way for it to be taken. But not disrespectfully.
- Accujack 5y ago
  >"&c" is the archaic form of "etc", the ampersand being a ligature of "et" - Latin for "and". "etc" is an abbreviation for and contraction of "et cetera", Latin for "and so on". "&c" is, I think, an artifact of a particular time in history when writing skills were spreading rapidly but the process of writing itself was cumbersome and time consuming, necessitating macro-type abbreviations like that. It's not particularly archaic.
  - musicale 5y ago
    > the ampersand being a ligature of "et" I have been noticing recently that certain ampersands contain (to me) very clearly readable "et" abbreviations, while others are more stylized.
  - noduerme 5y ago
    >> a particular time in history when writing skills were spreading rapidly but the process of writing itself was cumbersome I feel like I'm previewing the 22nd Century's review of "LOL", "WTF" and "THOT".
  - Pigalowda 5y ago
    It is Latin shorthand created by Cicero’s educated slave, Tiro. The system was created to record senate meetings and conversations for Cicero to go over later. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tironian_notes https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tironian_notes
- bryanrasmussen 5y ago
  >Might be taken the wrong way. My wife might be offended if I implied being her humble and obedient servant was only an etc.
- tsm 5y ago
chromatin 5y ago
I love your closing. I sometimes use as a formal valediction: Loren Ipsum Dolor etc. I remain (paragraph break here, no punctuation) Very truly yours, [My Name]
musicale 5y ago
> "I am your humble and obedient servant" perhaps overly appropriate/accurate for messages to one's boss/employer
simonebrunozzi 5y ago
The Italian word "ciao" [0] comes from the word "slave", meaning exactly that - "I am your humble servant". Became popular in Venice and then spread elsewhere. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciao https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciao
- 1_player 5y ago
  I'm born and raised in Italy and TIL. Makes sense, ciao -> sciao -> schiavo (slave). BTW, interesting fact: "The Venetian word for "slave", s-ciào [ˈstʃao] or s-ciàvo, derives from Medieval Latin sclavus, a loanword from Medieval Greek Σκλάβος, related to the ethnic "Slavic", since most of the slaves came from the Balkans." I'll be extremely sad if one day we'd have to lose the most common salutation because somebody deemed it offensive.
  - mattowen_uk 5y ago
    And TIL the origin of the word Slave, and the OG slaves of Europe. Thanks! (in keeping with the topic at hand.)
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - 4gotunameagain 5y ago
    > I'll be extremely sad if one day we'd have to lose the most common salutation because somebody deemed it offensive. shh don't give ideas to bored twitter "activists"!
seanhunter 5y ago
I am from the UK and work with a lot of Americans. I often sign off emails with "Cheers," which gets a lot of positive comment. As well as being what you might say when clinking glasses, in the UK "cheers" is a jovial way of saying "thanks" as well as something you might say for "goodbye" so works in all these contexts simultaneously.
- exclusiv 5y ago
  I've been doing Cheers for a long time too. Nice to see it towards the top. I prefer a more casual friendly tone and I'm pretty sure I started using it after seeing someone from the UK sign off all emails like that. So cheers!
- npteljes 5y ago
  I have a similarly positive experience with "Cheers". I always like it when someone uses it, and I often use it myself. Works really well with people you already established a connection with.
- spacedcowboy 5y ago
  Yep, Brit here in the US too, and 'Cheers' is my sign-off-of-choice. I'm told that I only get away with it because I'm British though, and my American colleagues would feel awkward using it :) Cheers!
exclusiv 5y ago
I had someone tell me on the phone and email - "I kiss the ground you walk on". I thought it was just weird and it caught me off guard on the phone the first time. Candidly - your colleagues most likely don't appreciate it as you do, whether they know the meaning or not. As I'm sure you're aware, in some countries, servitude is the greatest honor. But in many, it isn't; it signals 1) that you are lesser than or 2) you are very malleable person who may make a good fall person or dirty deed underling or 3) they don't believe your words and just think it's kind of creepy I really appreciate that some countries consider it an honor, and I don't know where or who you work with, but there's a very good chance that your favorite valediction is not only underappreciated, but not appreciated at all. Hope that's not the case but your closing comment sparked me to be candid about it for consideration.
tsm 5y ago
Some of my friends sign emails/letters to me with YMHOS. But we all do research on the 18th century, which…ah…is an important factor.
3dbrows 5y ago
In the Royal Navy, written letters to the captain [1] have to be signed off with "I am honoured to be, Sir, your obedient servant". I remember (in 2010) people thought this was stupid and instead used something like "Yours sincerely". But this ran contrary to regulations, and it was announced that letters would be rejected if not signed properly. Time moves very slowly in the RN. [1] There are codified degrees of formality for written communications. Formal, demi-formal, and others used more operationally. I am talking about first-tier formal letters to senior officers in this case.
mjklin 5y ago
Perhaps the influence of Hamilton[0] could bring this valediction back into fashion? [0]: https://youtu.be/V6_qvZFRlJQ https://youtu.be/V6_qvZFRlJQ

by suchow 5y ago

ineedasername 5y ago

>"I am, &c.," I've never heard that before, is it cultural/regional? (Compared to US)

happytoexplain 5y ago
I've only seen it from Americans, actually (though I am one, so not much evidence that it is strictly American).
klodolph 5y ago
It is archaic.
tkgally 5y ago
Samuel Johnson, among others in 18th-century Britain, used it: https://archive.org/details/lettersjohnson01hilluoft/page/n223/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/lettersjohnson01hilluoft/page/n2...

LeoPanthera 5y ago

"&c" is the archaic form of "etc", the ampersand being a ligature of "et" - Latin for "and". As far as I can tell the "&c." version was popularized by the 1944 novel "Anna and the King of Siam". So it literally means "I am, etc.", which I assume only expands to "I am your humble and obedient servant" in a humorous way. Might be taken the wrong way.

happytoexplain 5y ago
I think humorously is the intended way for it to be taken. But not disrespectfully.
Accujack 5y ago
>"&c" is the archaic form of "etc", the ampersand being a ligature of "et" - Latin for "and". "etc" is an abbreviation for and contraction of "et cetera", Latin for "and so on". "&c" is, I think, an artifact of a particular time in history when writing skills were spreading rapidly but the process of writing itself was cumbersome and time consuming, necessitating macro-type abbreviations like that. It's not particularly archaic.
- musicale 5y ago
  > the ampersand being a ligature of "et" I have been noticing recently that certain ampersands contain (to me) very clearly readable "et" abbreviations, while others are more stylized.
- noduerme 5y ago
  >> a particular time in history when writing skills were spreading rapidly but the process of writing itself was cumbersome I feel like I'm previewing the 22nd Century's review of "LOL", "WTF" and "THOT".
- Pigalowda 5y ago
  It is Latin shorthand created by Cicero’s educated slave, Tiro. The system was created to record senate meetings and conversations for Cicero to go over later. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tironian_notes https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tironian_notes
bryanrasmussen 5y ago
>Might be taken the wrong way. My wife might be offended if I implied being her humble and obedient servant was only an etc.
tsm 5y ago

chromatin 5y ago

I love your closing. I sometimes use as a formal valediction: Loren Ipsum Dolor etc. I remain (paragraph break here, no punctuation) Very truly yours, [My Name]

musicale 5y ago

> "I am your humble and obedient servant" perhaps overly appropriate/accurate for messages to one's boss/employer

simonebrunozzi 5y ago

The Italian word "ciao" [0] comes from the word "slave", meaning exactly that - "I am your humble servant". Became popular in Venice and then spread elsewhere. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciao https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciao

1_player 5y ago
I'm born and raised in Italy and TIL. Makes sense, ciao -> sciao -> schiavo (slave). BTW, interesting fact: "The Venetian word for "slave", s-ciào [ˈstʃao] or s-ciàvo, derives from Medieval Latin sclavus, a loanword from Medieval Greek Σκλάβος, related to the ethnic "Slavic", since most of the slaves came from the Balkans." I'll be extremely sad if one day we'd have to lose the most common salutation because somebody deemed it offensive.
- mattowen_uk 5y ago
  And TIL the origin of the word Slave, and the OG slaves of Europe. Thanks! (in keeping with the topic at hand.)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- 4gotunameagain 5y ago
  > I'll be extremely sad if one day we'd have to lose the most common salutation because somebody deemed it offensive. shh don't give ideas to bored twitter "activists"!

seanhunter 5y ago

I am from the UK and work with a lot of Americans. I often sign off emails with "Cheers," which gets a lot of positive comment. As well as being what you might say when clinking glasses, in the UK "cheers" is a jovial way of saying "thanks" as well as something you might say for "goodbye" so works in all these contexts simultaneously.

exclusiv 5y ago
I've been doing Cheers for a long time too. Nice to see it towards the top. I prefer a more casual friendly tone and I'm pretty sure I started using it after seeing someone from the UK sign off all emails like that. So cheers!
npteljes 5y ago
I have a similarly positive experience with "Cheers". I always like it when someone uses it, and I often use it myself. Works really well with people you already established a connection with.
spacedcowboy 5y ago
Yep, Brit here in the US too, and 'Cheers' is my sign-off-of-choice. I'm told that I only get away with it because I'm British though, and my American colleagues would feel awkward using it :) Cheers!

exclusiv 5y ago

I had someone tell me on the phone and email - "I kiss the ground you walk on". I thought it was just weird and it caught me off guard on the phone the first time. Candidly - your colleagues most likely don't appreciate it as you do, whether they know the meaning or not. As I'm sure you're aware, in some countries, servitude is the greatest honor. But in many, it isn't; it signals 1) that you are lesser than or 2) you are very malleable person who may make a good fall person or dirty deed underling or 3) they don't believe your words and just think it's kind of creepy I really appreciate that some countries consider it an honor, and I don't know where or who you work with, but there's a very good chance that your favorite valediction is not only underappreciated, but not appreciated at all. Hope that's not the case but your closing comment sparked me to be candid about it for consideration.

tsm 5y ago

Some of my friends sign emails/letters to me with YMHOS. But we all do research on the 18th century, which…ah…is an important factor.

3dbrows 5y ago

In the Royal Navy, written letters to the captain [1] have to be signed off with "I am honoured to be, Sir, your obedient servant". I remember (in 2010) people thought this was stupid and instead used something like "Yours sincerely". But this ran contrary to regulations, and it was announced that letters would be rejected if not signed properly. Time moves very slowly in the RN. [1] There are codified degrees of formality for written communications. Formal, demi-formal, and others used more operationally. I am talking about first-tier formal letters to senior officers in this case.

mjklin 5y ago

Perhaps the influence of Hamilton[0] could bring this valediction back into fashion? [0]: https://youtu.be/V6_qvZFRlJQ https://youtu.be/V6_qvZFRlJQ